No matter what the "cause" there is no justification for violence and disorder.
One warning to disperse before the water cannons are deployed with a long lasting dye in the water to identify the perpetrators later.
(06-08-2020, 12:09 PM)Big Daddy Cool Wrote: [ -> ]Churchill statue has been damaged now
Big mistake. That's the problem with direct action, you alienate moderates. You're not going to gain coverts with this. We all know he was a racist (it's well documented) but he is one where it would be expedient to turn a blind eye. I'd conveniently put him in the "he was of his time" category and move on.
(06-08-2020, 12:14 PM)yeoman lai Wrote: [ -> ]No matter what the "cause" there is no justification for violence and disorder.
One warning to disperse before the water cannons are deployed with a long lasting dye in the water to identify the perpetrators later.
Is your name a celebration of the actions of the Manchester and Salford Yeomanry on that fateful day in August 1819?
If not, it should be.
(06-08-2020, 12:18 PM)baggiebloke Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2020, 12:14 PM)yeoman lai Wrote: [ -> ]No matter what the "cause" there is no justification for violence and disorder.
One warning to disperse before the water cannons are deployed with a long lasting dye in the water to identify the perpetrators later.
But... What colour dye?
I'd say orange.
Dingle orange.. The ultimate shame.
(06-08-2020, 12:21 PM)yeoman lai Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2020, 12:18 PM)baggiebloke Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2020, 12:14 PM)yeoman lai Wrote: [ -> ]No matter what the "cause" there is no justification for violence and disorder.
One warning to disperse before the water cannons are deployed with a long lasting dye in the water to identify the perpetrators later.
But... What colour dye?
I'd say orange.
Dingle orange.. The ultimate shame.
To be disposed of carefully.
In the cut...
(06-08-2020, 12:16 PM)fuzzbox Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2020, 12:09 PM)Big Daddy Cool Wrote: [ -> ]Churchill statue has been damaged now
Big mistake. That's the problem with direct action, you alienate moderates. You're not going to gain coverts with this. We all know he was a racist (it's well documented) but he is one where it would be expedient to turn a blind eye. I'd put him in the "he was of his time" category and move on.
Agreed, in terms of propaganda, that's a strategic fail by BLM.
Reminds me of the anti-capitalist demonstration i attended in Parliament Sq in May 2000. I was photographed walking past the Churchill statue just as a protester was adorning it with red paint (representing the blood of British and Commonwealth troops) and a lump of turf (modelled, quite skillfully IMVHO, as a mohawk). My gran, having seen the image, didn't speak to her 'traitorous ungrateful bastard grandson' for about three months. Lesson learnt.
Interestingly enough, the guy charged with vandalising the statue had toured Bosnia with the Royal Marines. My gran hadn't, though she was incredibly patriotic. I dread to think what she'd be saying in these post-Brexit times, the mad old racist cow. God bless her.
(06-08-2020, 12:26 PM)WWHO Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, in terms of propaganda, that's a strategic fail by BLM.
Reminds me of the anti-capitalist demonstration i attended in Parliament Sq in May 2000. I was photographed walking past the Churchill statue just as a protester was adorning it with red paint (representing the blood of British and Commonwealth troops) and a lump of turf (modelled, quite skillfully IMVHO, as a mohawk). My gran, having seen the image, didn't speak to her 'traitorous ungrateful bastard grandson' for about three months. Lesson learnt.
Interestingly enough, the guy charged with vandalising the statue had toured Bosnia with the Royal Marines. My gran hadn't, though she was incredibly patriotic. I dread to think what she'd be saying in these post-Brexit times, the mad old racist cow. God bless her.
she was lovely, just 'of her time' !
Whilst all this is going on, the leadership from our elected MPs has been deafening.
(06-08-2020, 11:17 AM)Kit Kat Chunky Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2020, 11:08 AM)WWHO Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2020, 10:54 AM)Kit Kat Chunky Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2020, 10:19 AM)fuzzbox Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2020, 10:16 AM)Duffers Wrote: [ -> ]The council did when they ignored all the campaigns to remove it.
What will be more interesting is who will want to put it back up again? In a way, that in itself 'almost' justifies tearing it down.
It shouldn't go back up, in my opinion.
But whatever happens it needs to be decided in a lawful way, not because an out of control mob decided upon itself to take the law into it's own hands.
What next, vigilantes? Summary execution by the mob for walking on the cracks in the pavement?
We have to have law enforcement otherwise we end up with anarchy and civil war. And I'm no apologist for the Police, far from it. But someone has to enforce the law.
I think you're being a little harsh in your criticism of Tory Councillor Richard Eddy and the Society of Merchant Venturers ...
I was going to make a post on the relative merits of both peaceful and violent direct action, forms of protest I personally have participated in; but instead I'm going to reflect on the fact that a poster on this thread has advocated the army shooting his/her fellow citizens. Wow.
What would have happened if the tumbling statue had crushed someone??
HASAW would have had a field day!!
I can just imagine the scenes in East Germany, on that historic day in November 1989, as a huddled mass of Mauerspechtes approached the Berlin Wall - a much loathed symbol of tyranny and division.
Then, just as they unsheathed their tiny little axes in order to engage in what would have been an epoch-making act of civil disobedience, they were stopped dead in their tracks by a hard helmet clad party official. After he read out the article 2, section b of the new Health and Safety Act, their leader David Hasslehoff agreed to climb down and his supporters dispersed immediately.
Having been forced to conduct their protest by legitimate means, they subsequently wrote a succession of strongly worded letters to the East Berlin council calling for the wall's removal. But, with the lobbying campaign being filibustered by the political establishment, the wall remained.
The rest, as they say, is history ...
(06-08-2020, 12:31 PM)fuzzbox Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2020, 12:26 PM)WWHO Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, in terms of propaganda, that's a strategic fail by BLM.
Reminds me of the anti-capitalist demonstration i attended in Parliament Sq in May 2000. I was photographed walking past the Churchill statue just as a protester was adorning it with red paint (representing the blood of British and Commonwealth troops) and a lump of turf (modelled, quite skillfully IMVHO, as a mohawk). My gran, having seen the image, didn't speak to her 'traitorous ungrateful bastard grandson' for about three months. Lesson learnt.
Interestingly enough, the guy charged with vandalising the statue had toured Bosnia with the Royal Marines. My gran hadn't, though she was incredibly patriotic. I dread to think what she'd be saying in these post-Brexit times, the mad old racist cow. God bless her.
she was lovely, just 'of her time' !
Yes, if her time was the Dark Ages.
Thank god i took after my granddad; a lefty gobshite who had a troubled relationship with both alcohol and figures of authority.