coxy134,
I did right a reply to this but it went missing!
I agree there is a problem with cultures. Unfortunately, though, this has been recognised and debated for years and yet those cultures are still there. You could argue it's even worse.
So bearing that in mind, is it worth our time even debating why these cultures exist? Obviously it is, but we shouldn't hang about expecting a solution before we start doing something. We probably won't get one! Looking to apportion blame doesn't help anyone either.
What I don't think is in dispute is if you are working in a career and feel part of society you're less likely to commit crime. It doesn't matter really why that is, but we know that statistically we have evidence that it is true.
So therefore we should be doing is making sure that anybody who wants to work or aspire for a career should be given EVERY help possible.
To me, it doesn't matter if the white kid in Blackpool DESERVES the help or if he gets more help than the hard working black kid in Birmingham. Similarly the other way round. Just get the guy working in a fair job and reduce the crime rate.
I would also add you (not 'you' as such) have to be careful when associating gang culture with black people. For instance, in the US, the traditionally black bloods and crips have lost most of their 'turf' to latino gangs that are much more violent. In London, deadly albanian and Romanian gangs have frightened off most of the older black gangs that haven't joined up with newer, imported Jamaican yardie gangs. Whilst it's usually referred to as a black issue - which it definitely is - it's actually more nuanced than that and affects many poor communities. Conversely, no one has ever walked up to me throwing gang hand signs. Well, except for white people and I think they were joking...
"I don't think, I genuinely don't, that most people care about skin colour in the UK in this day and age. "
I would only say to that, being white, you wouldn't have the same experience as someone who is black. A quick glance at my email inbox would show you that. Using the rationale of witnessing inter-racial marriages to say that most people don't care is deeply flawed. It's also possible that being Irish may mean that through your own family experiences, you may be less tolerant of racism. At least that's what I found with the Irish growing up. It's then natural to extrapolate your viewpoint as the normal 'white' viewpoint.
Having said that, I would agree that most people recognise their own natural prejudices and try and do the right thing. I'm talking ALL People and ALL prejudices here. We all have them, I have them too. It's how we conduct ourselves that matters. Then, hopefully, those prejudices fade to nothing...probably to be replaced by new ones!
I did right a reply to this but it went missing!
(05-24-2021, 01:03 PM)Spandaubaggie Wrote:(05-24-2021, 12:49 PM)fuzzbox Wrote:I'm delighted to hear your views Fuzzbox. I'm a middle aged, middle class white guy who is infuriated with the race debates we are having when I recall what things were like in the 80s and 90s and I had to defend an Asian mate who was going to get a kicking just for his skin colour.(05-24-2021, 12:39 PM)Kit Kat Chunky Wrote:(05-24-2021, 11:14 AM)Cheshire East Baggie Wrote: First of all, it appears that she has had successful surgery, although recovery from a bullet wound in the head won't be an easy thing.
BLM are deploring "an attempt to intimidate or silence her", but a close friend says "as far as I am aware this is related to rival gangs as opposed to her activism" and "she was not the intended victim".
So my question is - does that make it all right then? When did it become acceptable for knife or machete attacks and shootings between rival gangs to just happen? Shrug of the shoulders - not the intended victim, so don't worry, it isn't something more sinister. This kind of thing seems to be happening all the time, all over the country, in all communities.
Police said at this stage there was no evidence to suggest she had received any credible threats against her.
Ms Johnson had been at a party or gathering when she was injured but she did not believe "she was the intended victim.
Meanwhile BLM say "Any attempt to intimidate or silence her, is an attack on all of us.".
And this is why I have such a problem with BLM. It would appear from the Police and eye-witnesses that she was caught up in gang warfare, and was not the intended victim, yet BLM try to make out it was because of her involvement in the BLM movement. Cue more illegal protests and violence in the name of BLM.
Yep, It's annoying. It's one of the things I find frustrating. It's ill-advised - it won't be black people that end racism, it will be fair-minded white people. Unfortunately, this type of thing pushes them away and gives the more racist, vocal minority additional firepower to fight against what is a just cause.
I don't think, I genuinely don't, that most people care about skin colour in the UK in this day and age. I'm from an Irish family and seen cousins marry into Afro Caribbean and Iranian families. No one gives a damn in my family of the skin issue.
Culture is a different thing though. A culture of poor morals most people despise. I can't stomach black gangs and their violence, but I can't stomach white underclass scroungers either. It's not about skin, it's about values and being a decent citizen.
I agree there is a problem with cultures. Unfortunately, though, this has been recognised and debated for years and yet those cultures are still there. You could argue it's even worse.
So bearing that in mind, is it worth our time even debating why these cultures exist? Obviously it is, but we shouldn't hang about expecting a solution before we start doing something. We probably won't get one! Looking to apportion blame doesn't help anyone either.
What I don't think is in dispute is if you are working in a career and feel part of society you're less likely to commit crime. It doesn't matter really why that is, but we know that statistically we have evidence that it is true.
So therefore we should be doing is making sure that anybody who wants to work or aspire for a career should be given EVERY help possible.
To me, it doesn't matter if the white kid in Blackpool DESERVES the help or if he gets more help than the hard working black kid in Birmingham. Similarly the other way round. Just get the guy working in a fair job and reduce the crime rate.
I would also add you (not 'you' as such) have to be careful when associating gang culture with black people. For instance, in the US, the traditionally black bloods and crips have lost most of their 'turf' to latino gangs that are much more violent. In London, deadly albanian and Romanian gangs have frightened off most of the older black gangs that haven't joined up with newer, imported Jamaican yardie gangs. Whilst it's usually referred to as a black issue - which it definitely is - it's actually more nuanced than that and affects many poor communities. Conversely, no one has ever walked up to me throwing gang hand signs. Well, except for white people and I think they were joking...
"I don't think, I genuinely don't, that most people care about skin colour in the UK in this day and age. "
I would only say to that, being white, you wouldn't have the same experience as someone who is black. A quick glance at my email inbox would show you that. Using the rationale of witnessing inter-racial marriages to say that most people don't care is deeply flawed. It's also possible that being Irish may mean that through your own family experiences, you may be less tolerant of racism. At least that's what I found with the Irish growing up. It's then natural to extrapolate your viewpoint as the normal 'white' viewpoint.
Having said that, I would agree that most people recognise their own natural prejudices and try and do the right thing. I'm talking ALL People and ALL prejudices here. We all have them, I have them too. It's how we conduct ourselves that matters. Then, hopefully, those prejudices fade to nothing...probably to be replaced by new ones!