How do explain school is important to young people anymore?

[Tom Joad]

As someone that has followed this debate without any pre-conceived ideas on the subject, are all teachers in agreement (that uniforms/hair style/socks are not important)? I would be far more inclined to agree with those that actually work in schools. Has there been any experimentation with following differing policies at very similar schools?
My only insight to this is my own kids' experience. There I found there were good teachers and bad teachers, the uniform policy went by without me noticing whether it was strict or not. Probably the same as when I was at school although I was such a disaster as a pupil I pretty much only have myself to blame!
Re teaching kids to brush their teeth; If the parents won't do it then someone else ought to. I'm not against public information adverts either, never mind accusations of nanny state. Everything from advice on utility consumption, recycling, driving etc, can only be good, no?

[CaptainFantastico]

I think for me TJ it goes much further than uniform into what I have said before is a need for a much broader rethink on the whole system. In keeping with the things you refer to there that actually deliver tangible life skills and resilient characteristics.

Local to where I live - which has very decent secondary schools - since what is effectively a local grammar school opened its doors to girls it’s become the fashion amongst the middle class aspirers to send their kids there instead. When the first set of gcse results come through they aren’t half gonna have a shock. They’ll find out that blazers don’t equal grades and shelter doesn’t equal life skills

[Birdman1811]

I've never understood the strictness over uniform when the colour of socks matters.

I earn a very good wage and have a very good career which would be what most schools would aspire kids to do. I wear pyjamas half the day when working from home if in the office, jeans and a T-shirt. Even the Directors do the same.

I do get why schools have uniform, but it doesn't need to be so specific at all. These colour trousers, smart black shoes, this colour blazer with this badge embroidered, white shirt and this tie. That's all it needs, sock colour, hair style, all means nothing.

[CaptainFantastico]

If there has to be a uniform kids should get the alternative option of smart but simple casual wear. Joggers, polo shirt, jumper. Who the fuck needs to be in a blazer every day other than for some daft prick thinking it has anything to do with mindset

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https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfre...m-any-more

[Malcolm Tucker]

If there has to be a uniform kids should get the alternative option of smart but simple casual wear. Joggers, polo shirt, jumper. Who the fuck needs to be in a blazer every day other than for some daft prick thinking it has anything to do with mindset

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https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfre...m-any-more

Hasn’t just about every study ever conducted concluded that uniforms are counter-productive? 

Except for Ponty’s made up survey, of course.

[Pontificator]

Speaking as the partner to a secondary school teacher at a school with significant behaviour issues who hears about it all the time when she gets home - sorry Ponty but you're way off the mark with this. There was recent talk of bringing legal action against the head for negligence because all he did was go on about uniform which the teachers - to a (wo)man - see as irrelevant (and I can assure you my OH works her arse off prepping, marking and creating resources for lessons thank you very much!). "Discipline" sorts itself out when the kids are engaged properly and have the proper support ie more teachers and more classroom assistants.

ps. condescension is an incredibly ineffective method of bringing someone round to your POV

I do apologise for being condescending.
I’m sure your partner is an excellent practitioner. Good class teachers are comfortable in their rooms and set expectations that the children understand and comply with. Unfortunately she will have colleagues who are incapable of similar and contribute little to the ethos of the school because they are finding their jobs so difficult. In fact one two make the school worse, they take time off due to stress and are replaced by cover supervisors or supply teachers who have no skin in the game.
You make my point for me, the head teacher is having a tough time explaining “grey Socks” to his staff because some think it’s trivial and there are more important things to deal with, but it’s about how the staff impose themselves. Discipline & uniform around the school is the job of all staff, in the corridors, on the stairways, in the playgrounds, not just senior staff coz they’re paid more or have less contact. It’s easy for staff to duck the responsibility and leave it to others, because they can’t be arsed or are scared of the confrontation or they feel it’s trivial. If it’s not about socks, it will be about knee length skirts, black tights, ear rings, make up, haircuts, shoes etc. It was ever thus. There is more of course to teaching and learning than this.

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If there has to be a uniform kids should get the alternative option of smart but simple casual wear. Joggers, polo shirt, jumper. Who the fuck needs to be in a blazer every day other than for some daft prick thinking it has anything to do with mindset

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https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfre...m-any-more

Hasn’t just about every study ever conducted concluded that uniforms are counter-productive? 

Except for Ponty’s made up survey, of course.

and yet 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_uni...by_country

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Since the Gove era all that is happened is people in their 50s and 60s resorting to the processes that were in place in 1960s to answer a problem that has no relation to that era.

I went to a job interview a year or so ago and they asked me to give an example of when I’ve had to deal with a serious behavioural incident in the class. I haven’t, so I couldnt. And the reason has nothing to do with socks.

Having served on a number of panels I would have been very disappointed with that answer and regarded it as somewhat arrogant. You could have at least made something up - you are very good at it

[ChamonixBaggie]

Sorry I didn't realise you were a personal friend of the head and had spoken to all the other teachers and decided which ones were wasters. Clarnet.

Never has a username been more apt.

[Pontificator]

Sorry I didn't realise you were a personal friend of the head and had spoken to all the other teachers and decided which ones were wasters. Clarnet.

Never has a username been more apt.

That is just bloody stupid and unpleasant

Headline in the Times this morning

The new head of Ofsted has said that behaviour at some schools is so bad that there are “no-go” areas for staff, and teachers lock themselves in classrooms for safety at lunchtime.
He said behaviour in particular was “certainly a challenge now”. As the leader of an academy trust he said he had taken on broken schools where “students were stopping staff saying, this is a no-go corridor, it belongs to the children”. He added there were also cases of “staff locking themselves in their classroom during break and lunchtime for safety reasons”

If the staff don't rule the kids will.

[CaptainFantastico]

Ha ha yeah I can imagine you on a panel. Titanic prick.