That "Level Playing Field"

[Derek Hardballs]

Simple question why would the EU just let us cherry pick the benefits of membership to the EU without the obligations they come with? 

I haven’t read or heard the EU ever compromise on this and why should they? They have to show that being part of the EU is preferable to not being. Many of us are still waiting for any semblance of an argument why the EU is wrong in its assertion to demand this or that we would indeed be better of with them. 

Is this another example of Libertarian bullshit where only the liberty / exceptionalism of In this case the U.K. well England let’s be honest is more important than the countries involved and should get everything we want or we shall take our ball home?

Is it a simple question?

A loaded one (and a long one) the premise of which is flawed. 

It's a trade deal that is being negotiated with the EU from a state outside it - although this reality is still not being accepted in some quarters. So there should not be any element of being part of EU in it (if that's what you mean by obligations). To insist on this is to force a no deal. A good  trade deal between the EU and a non EU state is perfectly feasible if the EU want it (which will involve 'cherry picking' from both sides).  I support the UK anyway and hope for a good deal in the timeframe in all our interests, or after when everone comes to their senses if a no deal is forced. I can't see the logic in wanting a bad outcome.

It’s not flawed at all. If you leave you can’t expect to pick and choose the bits you want, that will give your now competitors a potential advantage over you. The argument they need us as much as we need them is wishful thinking exceptionalism on our part. 

Just because you are taking everything this government says at face value with regards to them wanting a deal despite many in the party declaring they wouldn’t be at all concerned perhaps even welcome a no deal outcome does not mean you’re on the side of the U.K. anymore than those who never wanted to leave in the first place.

[Derek Hardballs]

Simple question why would the EU just let us cherry pick the benefits of membership to the EU without the obligations they come with? 

I haven’t read or heard the EU ever compromise on this and why should they? They have to show that being part of the EU is preferable to not being. Many of us are still waiting for any semblance of an argument why the EU is wrong in its assertion to demand this or that we would indeed be better of with them. 

Is this another example of Libertarian bullshit where only the liberty / exceptionalism of In this case the U.K. well England let’s be honest is more important than the countries involved and should get everything we want or we shall take our ball home?

Is it a simple question?

A loaded one (and a long one) the premise of which is flawed. 

It's a trade deal that is being negotiated with the EU from a state outside it - although this reality is still not being accepted in some quarters. So there should not be any element of being part of EU in it (if that's what you mean by obligations). To insist on this is to force a no deal. A good  trade deal between the EU and a non EU state is perfectly feasible if the EU want it (which will involve 'cherry picking' from both sides).  I support the UK anyway and hope for a good deal in the timeframe in all our interests, or after when everone comes to their senses if a no deal is forced. I can't see the logic in wanting a bad outcome.

It’s not flawed at all. If you leave you can’t expect to pick and choose the bits you want, that will give your now competitors a potential advantage over you. The argument they need us as much as we need them is wishful thinking exceptionalism on our part. 

Just because you are taking everything this government says at face value with regards to them wanting a deal despite many in the party declaring they wouldn’t be at all concerned perhaps even welcome a no deal outcome does not mean you’re on the side of the U.K. anymore than those who never wanted to leave in the first place.

It's not picking and choosing, that's the flawed propaganda language - they are negotiating a trade deal
I am not taking anything at face value including the EU or anti government propaganda - but I will support the government in negotiations over the EU as it would be stupid not to

It is picking and choosing the EU have been clear from the outset that they are not prepared to allow the U.K. to cherry pick without obligations. Why should they? They are now a competitor and a bigger better prepared and stronger one at that. Let’s hope we ‘hold all the cards‘ in the US deal...

[baggy1]

Then the EU are not negotiating a trade deal in good faith with another country and you should criticise them for that and for their obstinacy forcing a no deal

The only reason that there is a possibility of a no deal is because our idiots set an unobtainable timetable to get this through. I forget which previous deal was being talked about before the referendum but these things take years to negotiate and we knew that - having no progress in 3 years and trying to cobble together something in 12 months and force it through lies completely at the feet of the straw haired man child and his puppet masters

[Derek Hardballs]

Is it a simple question?

A loaded one (and a long one) the premise of which is flawed. 

It's a trade deal that is being negotiated with the EU from a state outside it - although this reality is still not being accepted in some quarters. So there should not be any element of being part of EU in it (if that's what you mean by obligations). To insist on this is to force a no deal. A good  trade deal between the EU and a non EU state is perfectly feasible if the EU want it (which will involve 'cherry picking' from both sides).  I support the UK anyway and hope for a good deal in the timeframe in all our interests, or after when everone comes to their senses if a no deal is forced. I can't see the logic in wanting a bad outcome.

It’s not flawed at all. If you leave you can’t expect to pick and choose the bits you want, that will give your now competitors a potential advantage over you. The argument they need us as much as we need them is wishful thinking exceptionalism on our part. 

Just because you are taking everything this government says at face value with regards to them wanting a deal despite many in the party declaring they wouldn’t be at all concerned perhaps even welcome a no deal outcome does not mean you’re on the side of the U.K. anymore than those who never wanted to leave in the first place.

It's not picking and choosing, that's the flawed propaganda language - they are negotiating a trade deal
I am not taking anything at face value including the EU or anti government propaganda - but I will support the government in negotiations over the EU as it would be stupid not to

It is picking and choosing the EU have been clear from the outset that they are not prepared to allow the U.K. to cherry pick without obligations. Why should they? They are now a competitor and a bigger better prepared and stronger one at that. Let’s hope we ‘hold all the cards‘ in the US deal...

Then the EU are not negotiating a trade deal in good faith with another country and you should criticise them for that and for their obstinacy forcing a no deal

Eh? They have made their position clear that they aren’t going to allow a former member to pick and choose the best bits of EU membership / trade without the same obligations they are wedded to. Again why should they? We decided to leave and become a competitor right on their collective doorstep, how dare they not give in to all our demands. After all those in power In the U.K. have been so polite and courteous to them over the years. 

Where exactly are we compromising? Are we giving ourselves anytime to pause during a pandemic that is going to wreck the economy over the short term? Are we going to jump straight into bed with a Trump led US because we walked away from our closest neighbours?

[Ossian]

The EU will owe us no favours once we're out, and none as we're in the process of leaving. That said, dealing with the them will prove to have been a picnic compared with the railroading we'll get when it comes to negotiating a deal of our own with the US.

[Derek Hardballs]

It's not picking and choosing, that's the flawed propaganda language - they are negotiating a trade deal
I am not taking anything at face value including the EU or anti government propaganda - but I will support the government in negotiations over the EU as it would be stupid not to

It is picking and choosing the EU have been clear from the outset that they are not prepared to allow the U.K. to cherry pick without obligations. Why should they? They are now a competitor and a bigger better prepared and stronger one at that. Let’s hope we ‘hold all the cards‘ in the US deal...

Then the EU are not negotiating a trade deal in good faith with another country and you should criticise them for that and for their obstinacy forcing a no deal

Eh? They have made their position clear that they aren’t going to allow a former member to pick and choose the best bits of EU membership / trade without the same obligations they are wedded to. Again why should they? We decided to leave and become a competitor right on their collective doorstep, how dare they not give in to all our demands. After all those in power In the U.K. have been so polite and courteous to them over the years. 

Where exactly are we compromising? Are we giving ourselves anytime to pause during a pandemic that is going to wreck the economy over the short term? Are we going to jump straight into bed with a Trump led US because we walked away from our closest neighbours?

Again you seem to be aping EU propaganda and swallowing whatever they say. Picking/choosing/obligations are not relevant terms here - there is a trade deal being negotiated between an EU and non EU state and on that basis if done in good faith then a deal will be found beneficial to both. Why should they deal fairly? you ask - why shouldn't they, if they want a deal. Why so hard to criticise them and support your country's interests in negotiations? 

But getting trade deaks with the  EU is problematic and they have proved both obstinate and incompetent in the past. After 7 years of trying, Canada walked away, only then did they sort something  out. And this is recent history - would you be critical of the EU at all here, as it doesn't impact on your hatred for the UK government? This is what the Canadian minister said when they pulled out of the trade talks after all thise years in exasperation - which is why an extension with them will not help:

“It seems obvious that the EU is now not capable of having an international agreement, even with a country that shares European values such as Canada, even with a country that is so kind and patient.

“Canada is disappointed. I am personally very disappointed. I have worked very very hard. We have decided to go home. I am truly very, very sad.”

So what our government say is honest, clear and straightforward, what the EU say is propaganda? 

Also trying to turn this into a don’t you love your country debate is a bit Mark Francois. 

The EU are not going to do a deal that weakens them politically or financially. I don’t know why you expect them to. You aren’t exactly coming across as a non partisan observer on this, your distrust of the EU is as plain as mine for this government.

[Derek Hardballs]

Then the EU are not negotiating a trade deal in good faith with another country and you should criticise them for that and for their obstinacy forcing a no deal

Eh? They have made their position clear that they aren’t going to allow a former member to pick and choose the best bits of EU membership / trade without the same obligations they are wedded to. Again why should they? We decided to leave and become a competitor right on their collective doorstep, how dare they not give in to all our demands. After all those in power In the U.K. have been so polite and courteous to them over the years. 

Where exactly are we compromising? Are we giving ourselves anytime to pause during a pandemic that is going to wreck the economy over the short term? Are we going to jump straight into bed with a Trump led US because we walked away from our closest neighbours?

Again you seem to be aping EU propaganda and swallowing whatever they say. Picking/choosing/obligations are not relevant terms here - there is a trade deal being negotiated between an EU and non EU state and on that basis if done in good faith then a deal will be found beneficial to both. Why should they deal fairly? you ask - why shouldn't they, if they want a deal. Why so hard to criticise them and support your country's interests in negotiations? 

But getting trade deaks with the  EU is problematic and they have proved both obstinate and incompetent in the past. After 7 years of trying, Canada walked away, only then did they sort something  out. And this is recent history - would you be critical of the EU at all here, as it doesn't impact on your hatred for the UK government? This is what the Canadian minister said when they pulled out of the trade talks after all thise years in exasperation - which is why an extension with them will not help:

“It seems obvious that the EU is now not capable of having an international agreement, even with a country that shares European values such as Canada, even with a country that is so kind and patient.

“Canada is disappointed. I am personally very disappointed. I have worked very very hard. We have decided to go home. I am truly very, very sad.”

So what our government say is honest, clear and straightforward Rarely, but they are keen for a deal I am sure , what the EU say is propaganda? Sometimes, especially in negotiations, hardly uncommon, same for the UK government

Also trying to turn this into a don’t you love your country debate is a bit Mark Francois. Bizarre spinning - I see it in my interests and yours to support the UK in negotiations on getting a good trade deal - why would anyone be hoping the EU give us a bad deal or continue to stall for years?

The EU are not going to do a deal that weakens them politically or financially. I don’t know why you expect them to. You aren’t exactly coming across as a non partisan observer on this, your distrust of the EU is as plain as mine for this government.
My distrust of the EU is based on their negotiating now and failing to offer an acceptable deal or recognise the reality of the UK being a non EU country, and in continuing to push for more extensions, when as shown above they are prepared to keep these deals going for many years and still not get there - a lack of accountability and competence in the negotiators past and present I feel. I also think as per above the UK do want a deal, but I am not sure the EU negotiators do, even if their governments do. I am not partisan like you are though, no, far from it. But I will support our country in getting a good trade deal with another country or block - why wouldn't I?

Now, I answered your simple question and told you my opinion- you could answer mine on whether you are prepared to criticise the EU at all for their part in this lack of a deal, or even for the farce of 7 years plus trying to get one with Canada, or are they above criticism in your eyes?

Most I imagine people want a good deal BUT there are plenty who want a complete break or no deal. They think that is in the best interest of the country. It’s not as simple as you’re either with us or not. Ultimately this government won on the ticket they had ‘an oven ready deal’ that they would implement, they own it they deliver it. Don’t start blaming others.

Your distrust of the EU is entirely proportional to mine and others distrust of this government. You say yours is based on experience mine is too and always has been. I didn’t wake up thinking I know I will dislike this group of individuals without any tangible reason. I will criticise when it is shown by a neutral observer that the EU are moving the goalposts. Can you say they are?