Mandelson

[Protheroe]

The amount of bollocks in that post Proth is below you mate. Your 'they're never British' commentary is crass, and feeling sorry for anyone trying to avoid IHT through the back door of pensions is just being upset at a loophole closing. 

And off to the EU I see, oh how times have changed.

I'm not off to the EU - that's a sclerotic political construct. I'm off to Spain..

Feel free to take issue with the substance of any of the points I'm making.

On immigration I'm far more liberal than the Labour Party. I'd happily welcome anyone here who brings a skill we need or capital (God above we need plenty of that). Labour prefers arbitrary salary thresholds and proto-Powellian rhetoric, when all it actually needs to do is deal with those undocumented men arriving here illegally from fuck knows where with fuck knows what motive.

I'm afraid you have been so institutionalised that you can't see the corrosive effect this incompetent bunch are having on industry, commerce and public trust. It is no wonder they are the least popular government in modern history. There is no political philosophy and no plan. They are buffeted and blown on the winds of events outside their control whilst monumentally fucking up everything they can control.

You scoff at idea that fiscal drag is problematic when it is robbing millions blind. You scoff at the idea that destroying carefully laid plans for the transfer of wealth between generations are problematic - when it was successive governments who encouraged the development of such plans - not a loophole, a fucking incentive to invest FFS. And you don't believe there's a problem with retaining massive unfunded public sector pensions whilst the rest of us scrabble around for any return we can get.

There are aspects of our societal fabric on the brink of collapse. I don't think the statists insulated by the system quite realise it yet, but a day is coming quite shortly when they'll realise the golden goose has stopped laying.

[baggy1]

A fucking incentive to invest in your pension - to pay for your retirement, not as a convenient way to avoid inheritance tax. If you can't see that when it was set up an individuals assets were generally not likely to meet the IHT thresholds then you are only looking at one end of the situation. Assets climbing so much have encouraged those that can afford it to shovel money into areas that weren't impacted.

[Protheroe]

A fucking incentive to invest in your pension - to pay for your retirement, not as a convenient way to avoid inheritance tax. If you can't see that when it was set up an individuals assets were generally not likely to meet the IHT thresholds then you are only looking at one end of the situation. Assets climbing so much have encouraged those that can afford it to shovel money into areas that weren't impacted.

That's precisely the revisionism I'm getting at. You can't have it both ways - you can't stack up MY liability to fund £Trillions in unfunded public sector pensions whilst continually pulling the rug from me actually funding my own retirement.

All my spare money is going offshore now. My tax domicile will follow in a few years. How on Earth does that benefit the UK?

Once upon a time governments incentivised individuals to invest here. This lot have done precisely the opposite on Pensions, CGT, BPR / APR, Income Tax even on Dividend Tax and VAT Thresholds FFS.  If you can't see the problem they're creating then I can't help you. We can't all work for the NHS or the Civil Service you know.

[baggy1]

You mention revisionism and then throw in public sector pensions into the mix. A completely unrelated issue, but enough for you to muddy the waters of your argument. It's simple, your pension pot is to fund your retirement. If you don't use it it gets added to your estate to be included in IHT. It's closed a loophole that those that had money were exploiting at the expense of those that didn't.

Try not to throw any other random point to address this one.

[WorcsWBA]

Incredible to think how seismic this is over here with regard to Mandelson and Fergie, and yet the spotlight is off Trump for now because of the redactions. I'm sure MAGA is thinking "job done" at the moment...

[Protheroe]

You mention revisionism and then throw in public sector pensions into the mix. A completely unrelated issue, but enough for you to muddy the waters of your argument. It's simple, your pension pot is to fund your retirement. If you don't use it it gets added to your estate to be included in IHT. It's closed a loophole that those that had money were exploiting at the expense of those that didn't.

Try not to throw any other random point to address this one.

The pensions apartheid between public sector workers and private sector workers is not unrelated. As it happens I have both, so I can see only too well the difference between the two in terms of generosity, risk and guarantees.

I wonder how much Mandelson will continue to take from the taxpayer?

And I don't see any criticism of the other points I made about our growth and incentive strangling government.

[baggy1]

The reason we haven't looked at the other details is twofold - 1stly, you spend a lot of time on here muddying waters with ignoring points you don't want to address so it is important to address the specific points one at a time. This is shown by what has happened with this one point, you've added in a completely unrelated point to the discussion. And secondly, I haven't looked at those points in detail and might not have a good argument. So let's focus on the one point about pensions being included in IHT.

[DemonicBaggie]

Incredible to think how seismic this is over here with regard to Mandelson and Fergie, and yet the spotlight is off Trump for now because of the redactions. I'm sure MAGA is thinking "job done" at the moment...

Exactly this. Trump and his enablers are effectively controlling the narrative whilst he takes his wrecking ball tactics on tour around the world and continues to deflect attention away from his involvement in Epstein’s sordid world. It’s so obvious, and also delays any possibility of the victims receiving justice.

[Tom Joad 25]

A fucking incentive to invest in your pension - to pay for your retirement, not as a convenient way to avoid inheritance tax. If you can't see that when it was set up an individuals assets were generally not likely to meet the IHT thresholds then you are only looking at one end of the situation. Assets climbing so much have encouraged those that can afford it to shovel money into areas that weren't impacted.

That's precisely the revisionism I'm getting at. You can't have it both ways - you can't stack up MY liability to fund £Trillions in unfunded public sector pensions whilst continually pulling the rug from me actually funding my own retirement.

All my spare money is going offshore now. My tax domicile will follow in a few years. How on Earth does that benefit the UK?

Once upon a time governments incentivised individuals to invest here. This lot have done precisely the opposite on Pensions, CGT, BPR / APR, Income Tax even on Dividend Tax and VAT Thresholds FFS.  If you can't see the problem they're creating then I can't help you. We can't all work for the NHS or the Civil Service you know.

You regularly remind us all you already currently have a comfortable life in a nice area and are heading for a cushy retirement, yet you'd prefer to uproot your family to somewhere else rather than pay some tax towards it?

[man in the corner shop]

Incredible to think how seismic this is over here with regard to Mandelson and Fergie, and yet the spotlight is off Trump for now because of the redactions. I'm sure MAGA is thinking "job done" at the moment...

Well St John's and Warndon can be like that.
What do the people of Brickies have to say?

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I'm not sure that makes sense Proth and pensions haven't got worse definitely (mine have all risen considerably in the last 12 months). You'll probably have to explain what you mean by worse. They've also reduced NHS waiting lists, brought underperforming train companies into private ownership, reduced immigration, brought stability to the markets, reduced heating bills and interest rates, introduced new workers rights and many more: https://fullfact.org/government-tracker/ . Amazingly a lot of that doesn't make the press for some reason.

You'll have to help me out with what the Labour government has done to directly increase the "value" of your pension.

My point is they've utterly shafted people on salary sacrifice, they've made anyone sentient alter their pension saving behaviour if they're at or above the IHT threshold. Most of all (and similarly to Student Loans) they've illustrated that you can't trust the government to stick to the terms of the contract you believed you had with them. 

They still haven't sorted out the doctors dispute. RAC hospitals won't be fixed for at least another decade. They've recreated the British Rail I used to work for - I can hardly contain my enthusiasm for rail travel in the future. They've lowered the rate at which the number of immigrants is rising. They've transferred the cost of energy into general taxation and will have to do much more of that in their crazed rush to destroy what remains of Britain's chemical industry. They apparently wish to crow about interest rates reducing at a time that inflation is still 75% above target. And they're destroying job opportunities will needless additional rights for workers.

I'm off to Spain in a couple of weeks to start looking for where we fancy moving in 5 years. I dread to think what state this place will be in by then.

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So your defending Starmer and McSweeney for employing the two time sacked Mandelson, ‘Prince of Darkness’ and then up until it was impossible continued their support of him. Starmer and McSweeney’s political judgement is embarrassing poor. I mean how shit does Starmer and his advisers have to be before you start realising Starmer is a problem not a solution.

I agree with Derek. The more that comes out about Mandelson, the stickier wicket Starmer is on. I think the clock is indeed ticking.

The amount of bollocks in that post Proth is below you mate. Your 'they're never British' commentary is crass, and feeling sorry for anyone trying to avoid IHT through the back door of pensions is just being upset at a loophole closing. 

And off to the EU I see, oh how times have changed.

Haven't sorted out the doctors dispute? Hang on. When they sorted it out (temporarily as it turned out) they stuffed their mouths with gold. Wanting it both ways it would seem.
I didn't think as a true believer Proth was allowed to move to EU. A brexit benefit of the sunlit uplands that he campaigned so hard for.