Going well…

[Protheroe]

Might be quite cathartic for you.

I'm in no need of catharsis. I'm perfectly sanguine.

[Borin' Baggie]

DH certainly doesn't need my support on anything but I fully understand his point about the disenfranchised looking for easy answers to complicated problems. The issue of making family homes into HMOs is (and I have worked on maintenance of many of them) massively unpopular among the neighbours. Whether used for asylum seekers or not. Apart from normally being unsuitable,  there are often issues of overloaded drains, excess rubbish, anti social behaviour and numerous other things. A good landlord can ease these problems but in my experience,  they are all about keeping the money. Then there is the argument I hear all the time, 'our xxxx can't afford to buy, can't afford to rent privately and has been on the waiting list 5 years'.
Of course, the actual answers require a long term joined up plan which will take a long time, meanwhile as Derek says, just throw people some hope that things will be moving in the right direction. Otherwise,  Reform will go on giving out easy answers.

But they are not disenfranchised. They have a vote like everyone else.

That they may not use it or vote for people who do not have their best interests at heart, does not mean they are disenfranchised.

They may be disengaged, but not disenfranchised.

Arguably they're more franchised under FPTP than the lefties who's votes are predominantly stacked in Labour safe seats, so their single vote carries more weight.

[Derek Hardballs]

Thank you TM a little bit of reality rather an academic study into the problems that Labour has when it comes to addressing the popularity of Reform. What choice at the ballot box do people have? Tory and Labour offer near enough same policies. If you’re on a council estate where services have been cut, antisocial behaviour is rife, and the cost of living grows ever higher year after year and you’re told by others you only have yourselves to blame, your concerns about HMOs are irrational and along comes Nige and co and tell people ‘no you’re not it’s x,y,z that are the reason you’re struggling’, which message do you think people will agree with?

We live in imperfect world and sadly and this was where I was wrong, rational arguments alone do not win political support, people want to believe in something and the two main parties offer nothing for many to believe in. Is that a reason for them to change their tactics? I don’t know, but I suspect that it will usher in at best hung parliament at worst a Reform government. However centrists can at least say they were incredibly sensible and rational on the way to defeat, it won’t help the most vulnerable in society if they do and naively I thought Labour at least might want to protect them from the snake oil salesmen and the pitch fork people.

I couldn’t tell you what Labour stand for and the Tories are too shambolic to even have any real values. The fact neither offered any message of hope and in turn tangible change will see them stagnate in the polls and leave the door wide open to Farage etc.

[WorcsWBA]

Doesn't the fact that the 2 main parties being unpalatable is resulting in many people shifting significantly to the right (Reform) rather than the left (Greens) actually suggest that at least tacit racism is widespread, and too many people are clinging to the pathetic lies and fallacy of Brexit. Does the extent of both of these override being able to see Reform for the clownshow that it is, and Farage for the charlatan that he is (nothing having been learned in 10+ years of him)?

Isn't it also time that the Lib Dems were more widely forgiven for entering into a coalition goct with the Tories?

[baggy1]

About 300 words there that say Reform lie and people believe them and Labour need to lie to compete. The budget will be the big moment - if Reeves doesn't give something in there that is an instant success then she's toast, unfortunately (dependant on your opinion) there is nothing to give apparently.

The government are providing new jobs through investments, working on helping JLR and their suppliers, and getting the one in one out policy in place (despite Jacko's assertion that it was the ECHR that blocked the deportations it was in fact just a standard 'we need time to prepare m'lud' delay), the workers rights bill looks like it will get through relatively unscathed, and generally dealing with a shit global economy. But there aren't enough good news stories.

[WorcsWBA]

About 300 words there that say Reform lie and people believe them and Labour need to lie to compete. The budget will be the big moment - if Reeves doesn't give something in there that is an instant success then she's toast, unfortunately (dependant on your opinion) there is nothing to give apparently.

The government are providing new jobs through investments, working on helping JLR and their suppliers, and getting the one in one out policy in place (despite Jacko's assertion that it was the ECHR that blocked the deportations it was in fact just a standard 'we need time to prepare m'lud' delay), the workers rights bill looks like it will get through relatively unscathed, and generally dealing with a shit global economy. But there aren't enough good news stories.

And those that there are aren't given anything like the prominence of the negative ones.

[baggy1]

This is true Worcs, partly because Labour keep adding some fuel to the fire by dropping gaffes left and right, however when you get the 'aide made a bad joke 10 years ago stories' you start to think there is more to the conspiracy theory than just bad management.

INteresting to hear that McSweeney was with Murdoch recently - maybe they are being a bit more savvy and might see more press help, although the social media aspect of bullshitting your way to power is a mountain to climb.

[Derek Hardballs]

About 300 words there that say Reform lie and people believe them and Labour need to lie to compete. The budget will be the big moment - if Reeves doesn't give something in there that is an instant success then she's toast, unfortunately (dependant on your opinion) there is nothing to give apparently.

The government are providing new jobs through investments, working on helping JLR and their suppliers, and getting the one in one out policy in place (despite Jacko's assertion that it was the ECHR that blocked the deportations it was in fact just a standard 'we need time to prepare m'lud' delay), the workers rights bill looks like it will get through relatively unscathed, and generally dealing with a shit global economy. But there aren't enough good news stories.

The first but I agree with, and I also agree there are some good things with regards to jobs but Labour are now playing a massive uphill struggle to win support because their first year in power was terrible in terms of the message it sent out. 

They alienated older people 
They really alienated the disabled community, their families and the charities that support them 
They’ve confused the hell out of everyone over immigration, one month it’s ’islands of strangers’ the next apparently the racism sickens Starmer etc 
They are only for working people not just erm people 
The country is completely fugged so get used to it (thanks for the hope Labour) but we are making really positive changes that haven’t happened yet. 

Whether you like it or not B1 Labours messaging and many of its first year decisions have alienated core long term Labour voters and at the same time still managed to not gain any support from those tempted or will vote Reform.

[baggy1]

And whether you like it or not we are a long way off a general election.

[Derek Hardballs]

And whether you like it or not we are a long way off a general election.

I await the inevitable leadership contest in the meantime. I may even join the Labour Party to vote in it