Coming to terms with Saturday....

[Pontificator]

A decent enough assessment Cuzer bar your view on Ismael would have sorted them out. There was zero evidence whatsoever that things would improve. We'd had 3 months  (19 games) of playing like a lower half of the table side

I'm doing my best to move on from Val, but can't let things like this go unchallenged. As late as Dec 17th, we'd lost just 4 of 23 games and were on an unbeaten 5 match run. Of the 19 games that you mention, I can pick out 8 that were good or very good performances, even if some of them didn't get the results we would have wanted:

• Albion 3 Bristol C 0 (23 shots for 7 shots against)
  
• Albion 1 Hull 0 (17 shots for 9 shots against)
  
• Albion 0 Forest 0 (16 shots for 9 shots against) - we were looking good for a victory until Molumby was sent off
  
• Coventry 1 Albion 2 (10 shots for 12 shots against) - we deserved the win in that game
  
• Albion 1 Reading 0 (25 shots for 4 shots against) - 1-0 massacre
  
• Barnsley 0 Albion 0 (16 shots for 3 shots against) - robbed, Barnsley never had a sniff
  
• Derby 1 Albion 0 (19 shots for 3 shots against) - completely robbed
  
• Albion 3 Peterborough 0 (27 shots for 1 shot against) - despite all the booing, we played them off the park
  

The Preston and Millwall games were dire, but the lily-livered players gave up in those games and the fans' attitude had already become toxic before then, unjustifiably so IMO.

Love the use of the term shot. Opta has three definitions of a shot 1. A shit shot. 2. A good shot. 3. A fucking shit shot. 
Can you write all of that again using "big chances" instead, and please subtract any Hugill efforts from the total. Please aslo subract any fucking shit shots made a player that in normal circumstances would not be classed as capable of scoring who found himself in and around the box having finished there after a "high press"

[Spandaubaggie]

A decent enough assessment Cuzer bar your view on Ismael would have sorted them out. There was zero evidence whatsoever that things would improve. We'd had 3 months  (19 games) of playing like a lower half of the table side

I'm doing my best to move on from Val, but can't let things like this go unchallenged. As late as Dec 17th, we'd lost just 4 of 23 games and were on an unbeaten 5 match run. Of the 19 games that you mention, I can pick out 8 that were good or very good performances, even if some of them didn't get the results we would have wanted:

• Albion 3 Bristol C 0 (23 shots for 7 shots against)
  
• Albion 1 Hull 0 (17 shots for 9 shots against)
  
• Albion 0 Forest 0 (16 shots for 9 shots against) - we were looking good for a victory until Molumby was sent off
  
• Coventry 1 Albion 2 (10 shots for 12 shots against) - we deserved the win in that game
  
• Albion 1 Reading 0 (25 shots for 4 shots against) - 1-0 massacre
  
• Barnsley 0 Albion 0 (16 shots for 3 shots against) - robbed, Barnsley never had a sniff
  
• Derby 1 Albion 0 (19 shots for 3 shots against) - completely robbed
  
• Albion 3 Peterborough 0 (27 shots for 1 shot against) - despite all the booing, we played them off the park
  

The Preston and Millwall games were dire, but the lily-livered players gave up in those games and the fans' attitude had already become toxic before then, unjustifiably so IMO.

Love the use of the term shot. Opta has three definitions of a shot 1. A shit shot. 2. A good shot. 3. A fucking shit shot. 
Can you write all of that again using "big chances" instead, and please subtract any Hugill efforts from the total. Please aslo subract any fucking shit shots made a player that in normal circumstances would not be classed as capable of scoring who found himself in and around the box having finished there after a "high press"

I think ultimately the stats that mattered was that we were playing like a shower of shit consistently for 3 months, and dropping away.

There will be those (very few of them) who will fight that Val deserved longer, but ultimately despite being shocked by sackings before like Moore and Di Matteo, and even thinking Bilic was harsh, Val seemed totally justified in my eyes.

The players downed tools is another way of saying he hadn't got players who believed in him. Either way a good manager gets the best of his squad- he clearly wasn't.

Anyhow it's all by the by now. It's up to Bruce to see what he can do with this lot.

[Cunninghamismagic]

Apparently ex Albion player Andy Johnson calls Grant "trampoline feet" given his inability to try and control the ball and it ending up 10 yards away from him.

[BurleyBaggie]

A decent enough assessment Cuzer bar your view on Ismael would have sorted them out. There was zero evidence whatsoever that things would improve. We'd had 3 months  (19 games) of playing like a lower half of the table side

I'm doing my best to move on from Val, but can't let things like this go unchallenged. As late as Dec 17th, we'd lost just 4 of 23 games and were on an unbeaten 5 match run. Of the 19 games that you mention, I can pick out 8 that were good or very good performances, even if some of them didn't get the results we would have wanted:

• Albion 3 Bristol C 0 (23 shots for 7 shots against)
  
• Albion 1 Hull 0 (17 shots for 9 shots against)
  
• Albion 0 Forest 0 (16 shots for 9 shots against) - we were looking good for a victory until Molumby was sent off
  
• Coventry 1 Albion 2 (10 shots for 12 shots against) - we deserved the win in that game
  
• Albion 1 Reading 0 (25 shots for 4 shots against) - 1-0 massacre
  
• Barnsley 0 Albion 0 (16 shots for 3 shots against) - robbed, Barnsley never had a sniff
  
• Derby 1 Albion 0 (19 shots for 3 shots against) - completely robbed
  
• Albion 3 Peterborough 0 (27 shots for 1 shot against) - despite all the booing, we played them off the park
  

The Preston and Millwall games were dire, but the lily-livered players gave up in those games and the fans' attitude had already become toxic before then, unjustifiably so IMO.

Love the use of the term shot. Opta has three definitions of a shot 1. A shit shot. 2. A good shot. 3. A fucking shit shot. 
Can you write all of that again using "big chances" instead, and please subtract any Hugill efforts from the total. Please aslo subract any fucking shit shots made a player that in normal circumstances would not be classed as capable of scoring who found himself in and around the box having finished there after a "high press"

Hahaha

What you are defining there is xG and my god don't go there.

[Birdman1811]

A decent enough assessment Cuzer bar your view on Ismael would have sorted them out. There was zero evidence whatsoever that things would improve. We'd had 3 months  (19 games) of playing like a lower half of the table side

I'm doing my best to move on from Val, but can't let things like this go unchallenged. As late as Dec 17th, we'd lost just 4 of 23 games and were on an unbeaten 5 match run. Of the 19 games that you mention, I can pick out 8 that were good or very good performances, even if some of them didn't get the results we would have wanted:

• Albion 3 Bristol C 0 (23 shots for 7 shots against)
  
• Albion 1 Hull 0 (17 shots for 9 shots against)
  
• Albion 0 Forest 0 (16 shots for 9 shots against) - we were looking good for a victory until Molumby was sent off
  
• Coventry 1 Albion 2 (10 shots for 12 shots against) - we deserved the win in that game
  
• Albion 1 Reading 0 (25 shots for 4 shots against) - 1-0 massacre
  
• Barnsley 0 Albion 0 (16 shots for 3 shots against) - robbed, Barnsley never had a sniff
  
• Derby 1 Albion 0 (19 shots for 3 shots against) - completely robbed
  
• Albion 3 Peterborough 0 (27 shots for 1 shot against) - despite all the booing, we played them off the park
  

The Preston and Millwall games were dire, but the lily-livered players gave up in those games and the fans' attitude had already become toxic before then, unjustifiably so IMO.

Spot on this, there will always be a debate regarding Val, I'm very much with Masi from the E&Dingle, Val is on to something and I'm sure will go on and be a good and successful manager at the level he operates, shoudl he be/have been more flexible? Absolutely but he didn't have a lot of luck with us, had very little patience from the fans and in the end got thrown under the bus by this under achieving shower of a playing squad. As a fan I'm desperate Bruce gets us into the play offs but I still believe long term Val would have been worth sticking with, regardless of division we would be in next season, opiions and arseholes and all that

Cuzer

Same for me Cuzer.

[BurleyBaggie]

I have said it before, the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.

We keep changing the manager but the senior pros remain;. Bartley, Kipre, Furlong, Townsend, Livermore, Robinson, Grant, Diang...etc. I am not saying they are all bad eggs, I am saying collectively and their collective culture is toxic. There needs to be a shift in culture and attitude which Val was trying to do (as it seems Bruce is) but to do that we have to ship some of these out...and bring in some younger hungrier players with something to prove.

For me, going up is paramount as it guarantees revenue, however what I do not want is to go up and maintain the totality of of senior pros. We have to make a change, if that results in a dead premier season, but helps us in the long term so be it.

If we do not go up, in the known restrictions of their contracts, we have to make that change but more incremental as we will have less money to play with.

Doing nothing, or do minimal this summer and we sow the long term seeds of demise.

[MrFizz]

I have said it before, the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.

We keep changing the manager but the senior pros remain;. Bartley, Kipre, Furlong, Townsend, Livermore, Robinson, Grant, Diang...etc. I am not saying they are all bad eggs, I am saying collectively and their collective culture is toxic. There needs to be a shift in culture and attitude which Val was trying to do (as it seems Bruce is) but to do that we have to ship some of these out...and bring in some younger hungrier players with something to prove.

For me, going up is paramount as it guarantees revenue, however what I do not want is to go up and maintain the totality of of senior pros. We have to make a change, if that results in a dead premier season, but helps us in the long term so be it.

If we do not go up, in the known restrictions of their contracts, we have to make that change but more incremental as we will have less money to play with.

Doing nothing, or do minimal this summer and we sow the long term seeds of demise.

I wouldn't include Kipre on that list tbh, nor Townsend. Kipper only broke into the team this year, having been out on loan most of last season. Townsend might not be at his best right now but he's a 100%-er.

[BurleyBaggie]

I have said it before, the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.

We keep changing the manager but the senior pros remain;. Bartley, Kipre, Furlong, Townsend, Livermore, Robinson, Grant, Diang...etc. I am not saying they are all bad eggs, I am saying collectively and their collective culture is toxic. There needs to be a shift in culture and attitude which Val was trying to do (as it seems Bruce is) but to do that we have to ship some of these out...and bring in some younger hungrier players with something to prove.

For me, going up is paramount as it guarantees revenue, however what I do not want is to go up and maintain the totality of of senior pros. We have to make a change, if that results in a dead premier season, but helps us in the long term so be it.

If we do not go up, in the known restrictions of their contracts, we have to make that change but more incremental as we will have less money to play with.

Doing nothing, or do minimal this summer and we sow the long term seeds of demise.

I wouldn't include Kipre on that list tbh, nor Townsend. Kipper only broke into the team this year, having been out on loan most of last season. Townsend might not be at his best right now but he's a 100%-er.

This is more culture than form, I think the collective culture is the issue.

[TETLEY74]

Bruce could be heard outside the stadium apparently laying into them, he was a very, very angry man by a lot of accounts.

3 games, and they've already driven nice guy Bruce to despair.

If that was the case Birdy would not be at all surprised to see this shower down tools yet again at Boro tomorrow.

[TartanRug]

A decent enough assessment Cuzer bar your view on Ismael would have sorted them out. There was zero evidence whatsoever that things would improve. We'd had 3 months  (19 games) of playing like a lower half of the table side

I'm doing my best to move on from Val, but can't let things like this go unchallenged. As late as Dec 17th, we'd lost just 4 of 23 games and were on an unbeaten 5 match run. Of the 19 games that you mention, I can pick out 8 that were good or very good performances, even if some of them didn't get the results we would have wanted:

• Albion 3 Bristol C 0 (23 shots for 7 shots against)
  
• Albion 1 Hull 0 (17 shots for 9 shots against)
  
• Albion 0 Forest 0 (16 shots for 9 shots against) - we were looking good for a victory until Molumby was sent off
  
• Coventry 1 Albion 2 (10 shots for 12 shots against) - we deserved the win in that game
  
• Albion 1 Reading 0 (25 shots for 4 shots against) - 1-0 massacre
  
• Barnsley 0 Albion 0 (16 shots for 3 shots against) - robbed, Barnsley never had a sniff
  
• Derby 1 Albion 0 (19 shots for 3 shots against) - completely robbed
  
• Albion 3 Peterborough 0 (27 shots for 1 shot against) - despite all the booing, we played them off the park
  

The Preston and Millwall games were dire, but the lily-livered players gave up in those games and the fans' attitude had already become toxic before then, unjustifiably so IMO.

Love the use of the term shot. Opta has three definitions of a shot 1. A shit shot. 2. A good shot. 3. A fucking shit shot. 
Can you write all of that again using "big chances" instead, and please subtract any Hugill efforts from the total. Please aslo subract any fucking shit shots made a player that in normal circumstances would not be classed as capable of scoring who found himself in and around the box having finished there after a "high press"

Hahaha

What you are defining there is xG and my god don't go there.

 I was just going to mention xG but didn't dare