Covid Vaccination ID

[backsidebaggie]

No I’m well aware of the cuts to police funding! I’m in full agreement with you on this. But it will still take up more of their time! I’m sure they still catch the odd criminal, and this will mean even less are caught.

Very interested to hear your thoughts on how you’d feel in my theoretical really bad case scenario I’ve described above. Is there anything the government asked you to do, backed up by the science, that you’d say I’ve had enough I’m not complying?

[baggy1]

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The answer always given is what else do we do about hospital numbers. I don’t know. But what I’d say baggy1 is if this gets worse and worse, and the science says that’s it you can’t go out, no family, stay in other than half hour walk a day for 5 years, would you support this? After all there’s no other option. The science and the numbers in hospital say that’s it. Online shopping only, wfh and not go out at all.

Theoretical (and you’ll say stupid), but what would be your stance if the stats and science said this was the situation? Where would you draw the line on freedom of choice in this theoretical scenario?

You appear to be ignoring the improvements that we have seen from the jabs, they have reduced numbers to the point that they are the minority in hospital now. There are still 5 or 6M people not vaccinated at the moment, that is a huge pool to get 30k from. We will always have people in hospital with it, I would say for the next 5 years based on the Spanish Flu, but jabs keep those numbers down until we get that herd immunity. And yes we will need boosters, and as much as people say they aren't going to do it the longer we will be in this mess.

It is embarrassingly simple - we have to do something, refusing a jab on moral grounds aint going to make one jot of difference to the virus. The less people jabbed with regular boosters, the more will be in hospital and the more we will be shut down. Those are the real choices and if people don't like them they need to find a solution, doing nothing isn't that solution.

My example isn’t going to happen, I know that. It was theoretical. Im asking because you always base your stance totally on science and numbers in hospital (fair enough). I’m wondering in a worse scenario like I’ve described, what would them be your stance? At what point would you say bollocks I’m not doing what the government tells me to/blackmails me to?

Just completely theoretical. Because I believe this is the stance with many people. They see their choices and freedoms being chipped away at (even though as you say it’s backed up by science, and I don’t agree with those who complain about very small ‘hardships’). So in a worse scenario, theoretically, is there anything you wouldn’t do that the government asked you to to help the situation?

Probably but it would be based on common sense, would I have two pints with a meal and get in the car although I might be over the limit - probably. Believe me I think this government are a bunch of twats and have played a major part in getting us to this shitshow of a position, but me moaning about it and not complying with the current rules is just stupid and cutting my own nose off...

I don't get al this thin end of the wedge bollox, covid passports were always going to happen and anybody that doesn't check their watch when Johnson tells them the time need to give their heads a wobble. For the 1st time since the 2nd world war, we really are all in this together - getting jabbed shouldn't have to be mandatory, it should just have happened.

[backsidebaggie]

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The answer always given is what else do we do about hospital numbers. I don’t know. But what I’d say baggy1 is if this gets worse and worse, and the science says that’s it you can’t go out, no family, stay in other than half hour walk a day for 5 years, would you support this? After all there’s no other option. The science and the numbers in hospital say that’s it. Online shopping only, wfh and not go out at all.

Theoretical (and you’ll say stupid), but what would be your stance if the stats and science said this was the situation? Where would you draw the line on freedom of choice in this theoretical scenario?

You appear to be ignoring the improvements that we have seen from the jabs, they have reduced numbers to the point that they are the minority in hospital now. There are still 5 or 6M people not vaccinated at the moment, that is a huge pool to get 30k from. We will always have people in hospital with it, I would say for the next 5 years based on the Spanish Flu, but jabs keep those numbers down until we get that herd immunity. And yes we will need boosters, and as much as people say they aren't going to do it the longer we will be in this mess.

It is embarrassingly simple - we have to do something, refusing a jab on moral grounds aint going to make one jot of difference to the virus. The less people jabbed with regular boosters, the more will be in hospital and the more we will be shut down. Those are the real choices and if people don't like them they need to find a solution, doing nothing isn't that solution.

My example isn’t going to happen, I know that. It was theoretical. Im asking because you always base your stance totally on science and numbers in hospital (fair enough). I’m wondering in a worse scenario like I’ve described, what would them be your stance? At what point would you say bollocks I’m not doing what the government tells me to/blackmails me to?

Just completely theoretical. Because I believe this is the stance with many people. They see their choices and freedoms being chipped away at (even though as you say it’s backed up by science, and I don’t agree with those who complain about very small ‘hardships’). So in a worse scenario, theoretically, is there anything you wouldn’t do that the government asked you to to help the situation?

Probably but it would be based on common sense, would I have two pints with a meal and get in the car although I might be over the limit - probably. Believe me I think this government are a bunch of twats and have played a major part in getting us to this shitshow of a position, but me moaning about it and not complying with the current rules is just stupid and cutting my own nose off...

I don't get al this thin end of the wedge bollox, covid passports were always going to happen and anybody that doesn't check their watch when Johnson tells them the time need to give their heads a wobble. For the 1st time since the 2nd world war, we really are all in this together - getting jabbed shouldn't have to be mandatory, it should just have happened.

Fair enough. But what I would say is to some people, common sense draws a different line to what it draws for you. I have Muslim mates who think having half a pint is insanity, let alone two pints and driving. They’d think you’re totally lacking common sense (I don’t agree with them by the way). They also think having this vaccine isn’t common sense, and they are particularly suspicious of government control. Now I fall in between. I’d agree with you on the two pints and the vaccine personally. I’d agree with them on the government control and bodily autonomy. We all have different ideas of ‘common sense’. And we have different ideas therefore of how much we’re prepared to do that the government ask/blackmail, because our ideas of common sense are different.

But my point is that some have already drawn that line at common sense, and believe this is overstepping the mark. You admit you’d have a point where you’d say “no more”, and many have reached that point. Particularly with something so important as bodily autonomy and the feeling of being blackmailed.

Additionally, I don’t think the thin end of the wedge discussion is bollocks. They repeatedly said there would not be domestic vax passports. They lied. If you’re okay with some lies and not others, fair enough. I’m not.

[Derek Hardballs]

Since France has said all health workers needed to have their jab, I think they have increased their take-up by 4m. That was on the radio this morning. I genuinely do not see any logic in young people for example refusing to have the jab from a health perspective and at the same time going to some dodgy dealer to score some Speed, Coke, Skunk, E before a big night out at a club or festival and that includes young people from all backgrounds, race, religion. There is no logic, just stubborn, lazy, trying to rebel nonsense.

[baggy1]

They repeatedly said there would not be domestic vax passports. They lied. If you’re okay with some lies and not others, fair enough. I’m not.

They've been lying for years, if people haven't realised that yet and this is the 1st time they have noticed then they are way beyond government control worries over the vaccine.

[Derek Hardballs]

They repeatedly said there would not be domestic vax passports. They lied. If you’re okay with some lies and not others, fair enough. I’m not.

They've been lying for years, if people haven't realised that yet and this is the 1st time they have noticed then they are way beyond government control worries over the vaccine.

Arf 

[backsidebaggie]

Since France has said all health workers needed to have their jab, I think they have increased their take-up by 4m. That was on the radio this morning. I genuinely do not see any logic in young people for example refusing to have the jab from a health perspective and at the same time going to some dodgy dealer to score some Speed, Coke, Skunk, E before a big night out at a club or festival and that includes young people from all backgrounds, race, religion. There is no logic, just stubborn, lazy, trying to rebel nonsense.

You’re assuming those who don’t want the vaccine all score drugs off dodgy dealers? 

Hell of a leap of faith. What about those who don’t want it and don’t score drugs off dodgy dealers? Why bring up that particular group? My guess would be they’d be the ones who would take the vaccine, but only a guess.

And people do not refuse it to rebel. Where have you got that from? There is logic for people, just logic you don’t agree with. And logic in many cases I don’t agree with. But that’s the point, we all have different ideas of logic and common sense. Lazy? God knows why it’s lazy. People have different reasons for not wanting it, very few are anti vax putting a chip in your arm type, and I doubt many refuse it then pump tons of illegal drugs into themselves. But you love a good generalisation dekka, lumping people into groups. It’s very lazy…

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They repeatedly said there would not be domestic vax passports. They lied. If you’re okay with some lies and not others, fair enough. I’m not.

They've been lying for years, if people haven't realised that yet and this is the 1st time they have noticed then they are way beyond government control worries over the vaccine.

That’s not what I said. I pointed out that some people are fine with the lies when they agree with the end result. I’m not. Dekka for example rightly slates the governments lies in many cases. Not a peep regarding this one as he’s well up for the coercion and government blackmailing people. I don’t think anyone is in a position to slate the governments lies only when it suits them. A lie is a lie. And medical autonomy is a pretty big one to a lot of people.

As I’ve said, you state common sense but everyone has a different idea of what that is. I know many people who would call you a selfish so and so for having even a half pint and driving, putting others at risk etc etc. I wouldn’t by the way, but plenty would. There’s people who would think you were downright vile for having two pints and a meal while driving. Only thinking of yourself, totally disregarding others, etc etc. So what makes doing that common sense, but not wanting this vaccine not common sense?

So it seems common sense is only common sense when it agrees with your idea of common sense…. That’s the thin end of the wedge baggy1, if you’re happy with this, at some point the government may blackmail you into something that you don’t think is common sense. You think this is, fair enough. One day it may be something that you don’t think is common sense. Now that happens in all areas of life, we have to do stuff we don’t think makes sense. But when it comes to medical autonomy, it’s a major issue for many, and I totally understand why. In turn, when they all get lumped in with chip in your arm 5G conspiracy theorists, it’s not persuasive, and it makes them pretty darn angry, because they have good reasons for not wanting it, whether me you or dekka agree or not with them. I don’t blame them for being pissed off.

[baggy1]

It was a couple of pints with a meal and I'm not exactly 8 stone shall we say, but that's by the way.

As an update, my daughter who doesn't like needles is having the jab next week and they will do it in her leg (it turns out she is only afraid of them being put in her arm for some reason - don't ask!), but she is sending me videos of some girl in Nashville that was paralysed after having the jab still. Still working on my lad.

Common sense isn't suspecting there is some government conspiracy going on and they are experimenting on us after there have been 4Bn jabs worldwide. Common sense is weighing up the facts, it reduces hospitalisation, after 4Bn jabs it's shown not to have any increase in side-effects, and it will help us all get back to normal sooner.

[backsidebaggie]

It was a couple of pints with a meal and I'm not exactly 8 stone shall we say, but that's by the way.

As an update, my daughter who doesn't like needles is having the jab next week and they will do it in her leg (it turns out she is only afraid of them being put in her arm for some reason - don't ask!), but she is sending me videos of some girl in Nashville that was paralysed after having the jab still. Still working on my lad.

Common sense isn't suspecting there is some government conspiracy going on and they are experimenting on us after there have been 4Bn jabs worldwide. Common sense is weighing up the facts, it reduces hospitalisation, after 4Bn jabs it's shown not to have any increase in side-effects, and it will help us all get back to normal sooner.

No one I know is saying there’s a government conspiracy experimenting on us! Here you go again deciding that those who don’t want the vaccine are all conspiracy theorists! Most have valid reasons whether you or I agree with them or not. Many of them are weighing it up! Doing exactly as you’ve said. They just come to a different conclusion. That is the message I get from every under 40 I know who has said they don’t want it. They weigh it up for their own risk against covid (small for their age), weigh up other factors such as handing over medical autonomy as we’ve discussed, and have decided they don’t want it. Many also don’t think it will help us get back to normal as the government have kept saying this for 12 months and then it’s always one stage further…. 

You’ve decided that’s not common sense. They think it’s perfect common sense. Many of them think you driving after 2 pints is selfish, putting others at risk, and you’re a selfish idiot for it. I don’t by the way.

I wasn’t aware of a video of a paralysis in Nashville. Is that really a vaccine reaction?

[baggy1]

No one I know is saying there’s a government conspiracy experimenting on us! Here you go again deciding that those who don’t want the vaccine are all conspiracy theorists! 

Specifically, I don’t know. But some form of increased control, or authoritarianism, or money (shares in big pharma anyone?) would be my guess.