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https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1361370176072122370

Seemingly confirmed by Johnson. Anyone want to defend this as being fair?
(02-15-2021, 06:18 PM)Borin' Baggie Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1361370176072122370

Seemingly confirmed by Johnson. Anyone want to defend this as being fair?

He was asked about this and said no to the ID as far as I can see. He said a combination of most being vaccinated and rapid testing should be fine. Think Peston is being naughty here.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.co...b-12219118

No one should be prevented from normal freedoms if they don’t want the vaccine IMO. If we go down that line, I hope there is a serious backlash.
Anyone who works in care and health should have one. Otherwise they put others at risk particularly vulnerable children who don’t have the luxury currently of a vaccine. Where are there rights if some idiot libertarian, Covid sceptic, nonsense believing plonker and I’m being VERY polite decides not to have one.
(02-15-2021, 06:39 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone who works in care and health should have one. Otherwise they put others at risk particularly vulnerable children who don’t have the luxury currently of a vaccine. Where are there rights if some idiot libertarian, Covid sceptic, nonsense believing plonker and I’m being VERY polite decides not to have one.

Vaccines don’t prevent transmission so even having the vaccine still leaves people at risk.

Dekka you sound like a maniac. I know a number of people who are wary of the vaccine and aren’t covid deniers. My god look at you lumping people in with a few covid denying loons. You literally sound bonkers. The number of ‘covid deniers’ is tiny. There’s plenty who don’t want the vaccine. To call them all covid deniers is insane. If that’s you being polite, I dread to think what you’d be like being impolite!

And what would you do with the significant number of health staff who don’t want it? Hold them down and force them? Sack them? Jesus Christ.

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-n...ame-staff/

There’s significant numbers who don’t want it dekka. Many are weighing up the risks of covid with the risks of the vaccine (fertility, long term effects, short term reactions published by the government). I hate to tell you but the younger the age group, the more will refuse it. It will be a reasonable percentage (see article I have linked for an idea of working age staff in the health sector). An absolute tiny tiny fraction of these are ‘covid deniers’.
(02-15-2021, 06:34 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2021, 06:18 PM)Borin' Baggie Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1361370176072122370

Seemingly confirmed by Johnson. Anyone want to defend this as being fair?

He was asked about this and said no to the ID as far as I can see. He said a combination of most being vaccinated and rapid testing should be fine. Think Peston is being naughty here.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.co...b-12219118

No one should be prevented from normal freedoms if they don’t want the vaccine IMO. If we go down that line, I hope there is a serious backlash.

Fair enough, but I don't think that really counts as a no, more hope not.
I was only talking about this at work today. Having some kind of normality back in your life in the near future might include having proof of being vaccinated.
(02-15-2021, 06:43 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2021, 06:39 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone who works in care and health should have one. Otherwise they put others at risk particularly vulnerable children who don’t have the luxury currently of a vaccine. Where are there rights if some idiot libertarian, Covid sceptic, nonsense believing plonker and I’m being VERY polite decides not to have one.

Vaccines don’t prevent transmission so even having the vaccine still leaves people at risk.

Dekka you sound like a maniac. I know a number of people who are wary of the vaccine and aren’t covid deniers. My god look at you lumping people in with a few covid denying loons. You literally sound bonkers. The number of ‘covid deniers’ is tiny. There’s plenty who don’t want the vaccine. To call them all covid deniers is insane. If that’s you being polite, I dread to think what you’d be like being impolite!

And what would you do with the significant number of health staff who don’t want it? Hold them down and force them? Sack them? Jesus Christ.

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-n...ame-staff/

There’s significant numbers who don’t want it dekka. Many are weighing up the risks of covid with the risks of the vaccine (fertility, long term effects, short term reactions published by the government). I hate to tell you but the younger the age group, the more will refuse it. It will be a reasonable percentage (see article I have linked for an idea of working age staff in the health sector). An absolute tiny tiny fraction of these are ‘covid deniers’.

That was a list of usual suspects who refuse to have the vaccination. I didn’t say they were all Covid deniers it was meant as a list. I hate to tell you but many share my opinion that if you work in the care industry and refuse to have the jab that’s fine just don’t work in the sector. Including well known journalist and ‘maniac’ Shelagh Fogarty on LBC. There is nothing imo controversial or mad about suggesting people who care for others should take the vaccine.

We don’t actually know if the vaccine can help reduce the chances of spreading the virus but there are studies that suggest it may do. If it is proven without doubt then those refusing will put others at needless risk. There will be some who may not be able to have it due to medical reasons but they will be in a very small minority. This is the NHS information on side effects NHS information   This is a BBC report (I know you would have missed it as it wasn’t on Sky Sports Wink ) Fertility Fertility Concerns

Vaccine and the reduction of the virus

I’m not sure I want anybody working in healthcare and care who doesn’t believe / trust in medical science to be administering medicine to others whilst not taking a universal vaccine themselves.
(02-15-2021, 08:30 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2021, 06:43 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2021, 06:39 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone who works in care and health should have one. Otherwise they put others at risk particularly vulnerable children who don’t have the luxury currently of a vaccine. Where are there rights if some idiot libertarian, Covid sceptic, nonsense believing plonker and I’m being VERY polite decides not to have one.

Vaccines don’t prevent transmission so even having the vaccine still leaves people at risk.

Dekka you sound like a maniac. I know a number of people who are wary of the vaccine and aren’t covid deniers. My god look at you lumping people in with a few covid denying loons. You literally sound bonkers. The number of ‘covid deniers’ is tiny. There’s plenty who don’t want the vaccine. To call them all covid deniers is insane. If that’s you being polite, I dread to think what you’d be like being impolite!

And what would you do with the significant number of health staff who don’t want it? Hold them down and force them? Sack them? Jesus Christ.

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-n...ame-staff/

There’s significant numbers who don’t want it dekka. Many are weighing up the risks of covid with the risks of the vaccine (fertility, long term effects, short term reactions published by the government). I hate to tell you but the younger the age group, the more will refuse it. It will be a reasonable percentage (see article I have linked for an idea of working age staff in the health sector). An absolute tiny tiny fraction of these are ‘covid deniers’.

That was a list of usual suspects who refuse to have the vaccination. I didn’t say they were all Covid deniers it was meant as a list. I hate to tell you but many share my opinion that if you work in the care industry and refuse to have the jab that’s fine just don’t work in the sector. Including well known journalist and ‘maniac’ Shelagh Fogarty on LBC. There is nothing imo controversial or mad about suggesting people who care for others should take the vaccine.

We don’t actually know if the vaccine can help reduce the chances of spreading the virus but there are studies that suggest it may do. If it is proven without doubt then those refusing will put others at needless risk. There will be some who may not be able to have it due to medical reasons but they will be in a very small minority. This is the NHS information on side effects NHS information   This is a BBC report (I know you would have missed it as it wasn’t on Sky Sports Wink ) Fertility Fertility Concerns

Vaccine and the reduction of the virus

You’re backtracking and you know it. You literally referred to the health sector and to children being put at risk because of covid denying libertarians. Read what you wrote again. A tiny tiny percentage of those who don’t want the vaccine are covid deniers (especially in the health sector!). So what do you suggest for those in the health sector who don’t want the vaccine? Force them? Sack them? 

The fact that many share this opinion is irrelevant. I would ask them the same question if they share your opinion. There are significant numbers in the health sector who don’t want it. You say don’t work in the health sector if that’s the case? I ask again, what would you suggest because sacking those amounts is quite absurd. Just look at the stats in Leicester for gods sake! So what do you suggest?

As for the second point, correct, we don’t know. So it’s likely that to a degree at least, it can still be transmitted anyway. The vaccine isn’t even 100% effective so highly unlikely it can it stop 100% transmission. But it’ll help yes. But that’s irrelevant to the main point here, which is that shit loads of people in younger age groups don’t want the vaccine.

When significant amounts of people of younger ages refuse the vaccine, if you refer to these as covid deniers, you will be wrong for virtually all of them. You will be incorrectly lumpingvthem in with an extreme if you choose to do that. There are very very few covid deniers. There are significant numbers who don’t want the vaccine. From the Leicester study, actual doctors were the lowest take up! Lower than nurses and other staff! I’d love you to tell them they shouldn’t be working in the health sector! Jesus Christ.

So back to the health sector, look at the proportion who don’t want it. What’s your suggestion?

As for your last point about people not trusting medical science, science changes. I’d say on balance the vaccine is probably safe. Almost certainly. But no one can say 100%. And it’s each individuals choice as to how they weigh up factors to make their decision. Based on the stats from Leicester, what do you therefore suggest for the health sector? It may not be controversial to think they should take it, but when the only two options to implement your view are therefore forcing them or sacking them, I’d say that’s fairly controversial. Your thoughts?
(02-15-2021, 08:51 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2021, 08:30 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2021, 06:43 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2021, 06:39 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone who works in care and health should have one. Otherwise they put others at risk particularly vulnerable children who don’t have the luxury currently of a vaccine. Where are there rights if some idiot libertarian, Covid sceptic, nonsense believing plonker and I’m being VERY polite decides not to have one.

Vaccines don’t prevent transmission so even having the vaccine still leaves people at risk.

Dekka you sound like a maniac. I know a number of people who are wary of the vaccine and aren’t covid deniers. My god look at you lumping people in with a few covid denying loons. You literally sound bonkers. The number of ‘covid deniers’ is tiny. There’s plenty who don’t want the vaccine. To call them all covid deniers is insane. If that’s you being polite, I dread to think what you’d be like being impolite!

And what would you do with the significant number of health staff who don’t want it? Hold them down and force them? Sack them? Jesus Christ.

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-n...ame-staff/

There’s significant numbers who don’t want it dekka. Many are weighing up the risks of covid with the risks of the vaccine (fertility, long term effects, short term reactions published by the government). I hate to tell you but the younger the age group, the more will refuse it. It will be a reasonable percentage (see article I have linked for an idea of working age staff in the health sector). An absolute tiny tiny fraction of these are ‘covid deniers’.

That was a list of usual suspects who refuse to have the vaccination. I didn’t say they were all Covid deniers it was meant as a list. I hate to tell you but many share my opinion that if you work in the care industry and refuse to have the jab that’s fine just don’t work in the sector. Including well known journalist and ‘maniac’ Shelagh Fogarty on LBC. There is nothing imo controversial or mad about suggesting people who care for others should take the vaccine.

We don’t actually know if the vaccine can help reduce the chances of spreading the virus but there are studies that suggest it may do. If it is proven without doubt then those refusing will put others at needless risk. There will be some who may not be able to have it due to medical reasons but they will be in a very small minority. This is the NHS information on side effects NHS information   This is a BBC report (I know you would have missed it as it wasn’t on Sky Sports Wink ) Fertility Fertility Concerns

Vaccine and the reduction of the virus

You’re backtracking and you know it. You literally referred to the health sector and to children being put at risk because of covid denying libertarians. Read what you wrote again. A tiny tiny percentage of those who don’t want the vaccine are covid deniers (especially in the health sector!). So what do you suggest for those in the health sector who don’t want the vaccine? Force them? Sack them? 

The fact that many share this opinion is irrelevant. I would ask them the same question if they share your opinion. There are significant numbers in the health sector who don’t want it. You say don’t work in the health sector if that’s the case? I ask again, what would you suggest because sacking those amounts is quite absurd. Just look at the stats in Leicester for gods sake! So what do you suggest?

As for the second point, correct, we don’t know. So it’s likely that to a degree at least, it can still be transmitted anyway. The vaccine isn’t even 100% effective so highly unlikely it can it stop 100% transmission.

When significant amounts of people of younger ages refuse the vaccine, if you refer to these as covid deniers, you will be wrong for virtually all of them. You will be incorrectly lumpingvthem in with an extreme if you choose to do that. There are very very few covid deniers. There are significant numbers who don’t want the vaccine.

So back to the health sector, look at the proportion who don’t want it. What’s your suggestion?

Nope I’m not backtracking whatsoever. It was a list of the types of people who say they won’t have the vaccine. Those that are Covid deniers are one, then those obsessed with their liberty but not really bothered about others are another, then those that read crap on social media, then there are those who are sceptical / worried to the point of paranoia.

The studies have data to support initial findings that it can help reduce the spread of infection what have those who refuse to take the injection have as a reason for not taking it? Also just because something may not be 100% effective doesn’t mean you don’t try to reduce the risk by having as many people have the vaccine as possible. 

I see no problem insisting that someone in health and care has the vaccine. Just like many industries have injections for other jobs, or a DBS for working with children etc. I have my doubts it will happen but if it does get proven that it helps reduce infection between people without doubt I think those refusing should declare to those they are caring for that they haven’t had the vaccine so they can make an informed choice if they wish for them to treat them. Liberty works both ways.
(02-15-2021, 09:28 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2021, 08:51 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2021, 08:30 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2021, 06:43 PM)backsidebaggie Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2021, 06:39 PM)Derek Hardballs Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone who works in care and health should have one. Otherwise they put others at risk particularly vulnerable children who don’t have the luxury currently of a vaccine. Where are there rights if some idiot libertarian, Covid sceptic, nonsense believing plonker and I’m being VERY polite decides not to have one.

Vaccines don’t prevent transmission so even having the vaccine still leaves people at risk.

Dekka you sound like a maniac. I know a number of people who are wary of the vaccine and aren’t covid deniers. My god look at you lumping people in with a few covid denying loons. You literally sound bonkers. The number of ‘covid deniers’ is tiny. There’s plenty who don’t want the vaccine. To call them all covid deniers is insane. If that’s you being polite, I dread to think what you’d be like being impolite!

And what would you do with the significant number of health staff who don’t want it? Hold them down and force them? Sack them? Jesus Christ.

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-n...ame-staff/

There’s significant numbers who don’t want it dekka. Many are weighing up the risks of covid with the risks of the vaccine (fertility, long term effects, short term reactions published by the government). I hate to tell you but the younger the age group, the more will refuse it. It will be a reasonable percentage (see article I have linked for an idea of working age staff in the health sector). An absolute tiny tiny fraction of these are ‘covid deniers’.

That was a list of usual suspects who refuse to have the vaccination. I didn’t say they were all Covid deniers it was meant as a list. I hate to tell you but many share my opinion that if you work in the care industry and refuse to have the jab that’s fine just don’t work in the sector. Including well known journalist and ‘maniac’ Shelagh Fogarty on LBC. There is nothing imo controversial or mad about suggesting people who care for others should take the vaccine.

We don’t actually know if the vaccine can help reduce the chances of spreading the virus but there are studies that suggest it may do. If it is proven without doubt then those refusing will put others at needless risk. There will be some who may not be able to have it due to medical reasons but they will be in a very small minority. This is the NHS information on side effects NHS information   This is a BBC report (I know you would have missed it as it wasn’t on Sky Sports Wink ) Fertility Fertility Concerns

Vaccine and the reduction of the virus

You’re backtracking and you know it. You literally referred to the health sector and to children being put at risk because of covid denying libertarians. Read what you wrote again. A tiny tiny percentage of those who don’t want the vaccine are covid deniers (especially in the health sector!). So what do you suggest for those in the health sector who don’t want the vaccine? Force them? Sack them? 

The fact that many share this opinion is irrelevant. I would ask them the same question if they share your opinion. There are significant numbers in the health sector who don’t want it. You say don’t work in the health sector if that’s the case? I ask again, what would you suggest because sacking those amounts is quite absurd. Just look at the stats in Leicester for gods sake! So what do you suggest?

As for the second point, correct, we don’t know. So it’s likely that to a degree at least, it can still be transmitted anyway. The vaccine isn’t even 100% effective so highly unlikely it can it stop 100% transmission.

When significant amounts of people of younger ages refuse the vaccine, if you refer to these as covid deniers, you will be wrong for virtually all of them. You will be incorrectly lumpingvthem in with an extreme if you choose to do that. There are very very few covid deniers. There are significant numbers who don’t want the vaccine.

So back to the health sector, look at the proportion who don’t want it. What’s your suggestion?

Nope I’m not backtracking whatsoever. It was a list of the types of people who say they won’t have the vaccine. Those that are Covid deniers are one, then those obsessed with their liberty but not really bothered about others are another, then those that read crap on social media, then there are those who are sceptical / worried to the point of paranoia.

The studies have data to support initial findings that it can help reduce the spread of infection what have those who refuse to take the injection have as a reason for not taking it? Also just because something may not be 100% effective doesn’t mean you don’t try to reduce the risk by having as many people have the vaccine as possible. 

I see no problem insisting that someone in health and care has the vaccine. Just like many industries have injections for other jobs, or a DBS for working with children etc. I have my doubts it will happen but if it does get proven that it helps reduce infection between people without doubt I think those refusing should declare to those they are caring for that they haven’t had the vaccine so they can make an informed choice if they wish for them to treat them. Liberty works both ways.

You are back tracking. You listed them as a group and called them idiots and plonkers, and said that was polite! You threw in all those who don’t want the vaccine with the extremes. The truth is people weigh up their choice and many come to a different choice than you. Very few are the idiots and extremes that you like to portray them as.

Given that actual qualified doctors are the lowest up takers, which do they fall into? Idiots? Covid skeptics? Libertarians? They’re more medically qualified than you, yes?

The vaccine probably will reduce transmission and that’s one factor. But plenty of people clearly have other factors that outweigh that. Including qualified doctors! So yes it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have it, but it’s clearly not a decisive factor for many people.

Most importantly, you see no problem with insisting health workers have the vaccine. Look at the bloody numbers in the Leicester study! So tell me, how would you implement it? Just over half the bloody doctors have had it. It’s completely unworkable to ask people if they wish to be treated by a non vaccinated doc or nurse. If loads said no, there’s be nowhere near enough doctors/nurses to treat the people who said they wanted to be treated by a vaccinated doc/nurse! Only just over half the docs have had it. Surely you can see your suggestion is totally unworkable?

*edited, just over half docs had vaccine, not less than half. But point still stands.
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