Covid Vaccination ID

[Derek Hardballs]

Lockdown back in full next winter IMO. I was told that I was ignoring the vaccine programme when myself and Nick said this. Now strangely Boris said the majority of the drop in cases is due to lockdown, not vaccinations. While on the same day Hancock said the vaccine has saved over 10k lives. I don’t get that, it seems a ridiculous contradiction.

We are fucked IMO. I really don’t think people are grasping the severity of the economic situation (or mental health).

Lockdowns will only be used if numbers in hospital start moving up above 5k, there is no other reason why it would be needed. If we don't get people vaccinated then expect those numbers in hospital to rise. If I were you I would be spelling this out to all those that say they are not having the vaccine, otherwise expect lockdowns - simple.

We're only fucked whilst we have people think that they know better.

Lol, I know they’ll be introduced if numbers go up. That was exactly mine and Nick’s point. We got told this wouldn’t happen due to the vaccines. The numbers will go up. I’m not telling anyone what to do mate, people are entitled to do what they want with their bodies.

We are fucked. The division this is going to create is awful. I’m not going to be part of that division by telling people what to do. It’s none of my business. I’m afraid the distrust in government will only increase with contradictions like yesterday’s between Boris and Hancock’s statements.

But I firmly believe we’re not on the home straight as some think, I firmly believe the chaos hasn’t even started yet.

It's also the right of those who need care and medical help not not to have to be cared for or treated by people who refuse to have the vaccination. If those working in Care or Health don't want the vaccination fine do another job or let it be know to those you're caring / looking after that you don't wish to be vaccinated and let the client / customer decide if they are happy to be seen by them.

No it’s not, that’s not the law at present. And as I’ve asked a few weeks ago when we had this discussion, what’s your plan when, for example, 20% refuse. Sack them? The system will collapse. You hadn’t got a workable solution then so I’ll be interested to know if you’ve come up with one now.

As an aside, if you were ill with covid in hospital, or with anything else, would you refuse treatment from a non vaccinated doctor? Or would you take the treatment?

Defending the right of those that don't want to to be vaccinated and hiding behind the law is a cop-out and the height of irresponsibility. Rights come with responsibilities both are man made constructs and defending one but not holding people to the other damages society not strengthens it. You say you want out of the mess we are in as a society with regards to the pandemic but you are prolonging the problems by defending the rights of people to act in a way that will inevitably prolong the mess we are in. 

Rights should not be separate to responsibilities, you haven't explained why someone should not have the right to be cared for, confident that, that person has been vaccinated? Particularly now evidence is mounting that vaccination does help to reduce transmission.

[Birdman1811]

If you're talking about economical damage, yes we will feel that soon. But we won't be seeing lockdowns etc unless too many morons,and I won't change that phrasing, morons refuse the vaccine.

[backsidebaggie]

Lockdowns will only be used if numbers in hospital start moving up above 5k, there is no other reason why it would be needed. If we don't get people vaccinated then expect those numbers in hospital to rise. If I were you I would be spelling this out to all those that say they are not having the vaccine, otherwise expect lockdowns - simple.

We're only fucked whilst we have people think that they know better.

Lol, I know they’ll be introduced if numbers go up. That was exactly mine and Nick’s point. We got told this wouldn’t happen due to the vaccines. The numbers will go up. I’m not telling anyone what to do mate, people are entitled to do what they want with their bodies.

We are fucked. The division this is going to create is awful. I’m not going to be part of that division by telling people what to do. It’s none of my business. I’m afraid the distrust in government will only increase with contradictions like yesterday’s between Boris and Hancock’s statements.

But I firmly believe we’re not on the home straight as some think, I firmly believe the chaos hasn’t even started yet.

It's also the right of those who need care and medical help not not to have to be cared for or treated by people who refuse to have the vaccination. If those working in Care or Health don't want the vaccination fine do another job or let it be know to those you're caring / looking after that you don't wish to be vaccinated and let the client / customer decide if they are happy to be seen by them.

No it’s not, that’s not the law at present. And as I’ve asked a few weeks ago when we had this discussion, what’s your plan when, for example, 20% refuse. Sack them? The system will collapse. You hadn’t got a workable solution then so I’ll be interested to know if you’ve come up with one now.

As an aside, if you were ill with covid in hospital, or with anything else, would you refuse treatment from a non vaccinated doctor? Or would you take the treatment?

Defending the right of those that don't want to to be vaccinated and hiding behind the law is a cop-out and the height of irresponsibility. Rights come with responsibilities both are man made constructs and defending one but not holding people to the other damages society not strengthens it. You say you want out of the mess we are in as a society with regards to the pandemic but you are prolonging the problems by defending the rights of people to act in a way that will inevitably prolong the mess we are in. 

Rights should not be separate to responsibilities, you haven't explained why someone should not have the right to be cared for, confident that, that person has been vaccinated? Particularly now evidence is mounting that vaccination does help to reduce transmission.

I’m just saying it’s unworkable. I dont think it’s a cop out, it’s simply the law. I have no opinion on whether they should have the vaccine, that’s up to them IMO.

I believe they don’t have the right not to be cared for by a vaccinated person in the same way as care home and nhs staff have never had to have the flu vaccine. I know covid is worse and more contagious, but the principle stands IMO.

But more importantly, I simply don’t think it’s workable. Simple as that. You haven’t come up with a workable solution so we’ll agree to disagree.

---

If you're talking about economical damage, yes we will feel that soon. But we won't be seeing lockdowns etc unless too many morons,and I won't change that phrasing, morons refuse the vaccine.

Fair enough, but this is the division that I’m talking about. Morons for disagreeing with you? Nice. So bucksters mom is a moron for not having the second jab after a possible reaction to the first? Really?!

In terms of economic damage, I think it’s going to be 100 times worse than most realise. I’d love to hear from anyone who knows a bit more about economics than I do though.

[baggy1]

---

If you're talking about economical damage, yes we will feel that soon. But we won't be seeing lockdowns etc unless too many morons,and I won't change that phrasing, morons refuse the vaccine.

Fair enough, but this is the division that I’m talking about. Morons for disagreeing with you? Nice.

In terms of economic damage, I think it’s going to be 100 times worse than most realise. I’d love to hear from anyone who knows a bit more about economics than I do though.

Birdy isn't calling them morons for disagreeing with him, he is calling them morons for ignoring the obvious issues that will potentially arise from not taking the vaccine. Waiting for a plausible reason for not taking the vaccine is like waiting for an example of a Brexit benefit

[Birdman1811]

Lol, I know they’ll be introduced if numbers go up. That was exactly mine and Nick’s point. We got told this wouldn’t happen due to the vaccines. The numbers will go up. I’m not telling anyone what to do mate, people are entitled to do what they want with their bodies.

We are fucked. The division this is going to create is awful. I’m not going to be part of that division by telling people what to do. It’s none of my business. I’m afraid the distrust in government will only increase with contradictions like yesterday’s between Boris and Hancock’s statements.

But I firmly believe we’re not on the home straight as some think, I firmly believe the chaos hasn’t even started yet.

It's also the right of those who need care and medical help not not to have to be cared for or treated by people who refuse to have the vaccination. If those working in Care or Health don't want the vaccination fine do another job or let it be know to those you're caring / looking after that you don't wish to be vaccinated and let the client / customer decide if they are happy to be seen by them.

No it’s not, that’s not the law at present. And as I’ve asked a few weeks ago when we had this discussion, what’s your plan when, for example, 20% refuse. Sack them? The system will collapse. You hadn’t got a workable solution then so I’ll be interested to know if you’ve come up with one now.

As an aside, if you were ill with covid in hospital, or with anything else, would you refuse treatment from a non vaccinated doctor? Or would you take the treatment?

Defending the right of those that don't want to to be vaccinated and hiding behind the law is a cop-out and the height of irresponsibility. Rights come with responsibilities both are man made constructs and defending one but not holding people to the other damages society not strengthens it. You say you want out of the mess we are in as a society with regards to the pandemic but you are prolonging the problems by defending the rights of people to act in a way that will inevitably prolong the mess we are in. 

Rights should not be separate to responsibilities, you haven't explained why someone should not have the right to be cared for, confident that, that person has been vaccinated? Particularly now evidence is mounting that vaccination does help to reduce transmission.

I’m just saying it’s unworkable. I dont think it’s a cop out, it’s simply the law. I have no opinion on whether they should have the vaccine, that’s up to them IMO.

I believe they don’t have the right not to be cared for by a vaccinated person in the same way as care home and nhs staff have never had to have the flu vaccine. I know covid is worse and more contagious, but the principle stands IMO.

But more importantly, I simply don’t think it’s workable. Simple as that. You haven’t come up with a workable solution so we’ll agree to disagree.

---

If you're talking about economical damage, yes we will feel that soon. But we won't be seeing lockdowns etc unless too many morons,and I won't change that phrasing, morons refuse the vaccine.

Fair enough, but this is the division that I’m talking about. Morons for disagreeing with you? Nice. So bucksters mom is a moron for not having the second jab after a possible reaction to the first? Really?!

In terms of economic damage, I think it’s going to be 100 times worse than most realise. I’d love to hear from anyone who knows a bit more about economics than I do though.

No that's sensible. I reacted to the first but I'll take the second due to my job and it wasn't that bad a reaction, but people with no reason to refuse it other than crap read online, are yes morons.

[backsidebaggie]

---

If you're talking about economical damage, yes we will feel that soon. But we won't be seeing lockdowns etc unless too many morons,and I won't change that phrasing, morons refuse the vaccine.

Fair enough, but this is the division that I’m talking about. Morons for disagreeing with you? Nice.

In terms of economic damage, I think it’s going to be 100 times worse than most realise. I’d love to hear from anyone who knows a bit more about economics than I do though.

Birdy isn't calling them morons for disagreeing with him, he is calling them morons for ignoring the obvious issues that will potentially arise from not taking the vaccine. Waiting for a plausible reason for not taking the vaccine is like waiting for an example of a Brexit benefit

They may not be plausible reasons in your opinion, but in others opinion they are perfectly plausible! You can’t see it can you, your view is so ingrained that you can’t accept someone may not wish to have the vaccine.  Buckster has given you a perfectly plausible reason for a member of his own family, yet you’ve decided it’s not plausible!

---

It's also the right of those who need care and medical help not not to have to be cared for or treated by people who refuse to have the vaccination. If those working in Care or Health don't want the vaccination fine do another job or let it be know to those you're caring / looking after that you don't wish to be vaccinated and let the client / customer decide if they are happy to be seen by them.

No it’s not, that’s not the law at present. And as I’ve asked a few weeks ago when we had this discussion, what’s your plan when, for example, 20% refuse. Sack them? The system will collapse. You hadn’t got a workable solution then so I’ll be interested to know if you’ve come up with one now.

As an aside, if you were ill with covid in hospital, or with anything else, would you refuse treatment from a non vaccinated doctor? Or would you take the treatment?

Defending the right of those that don't want to to be vaccinated and hiding behind the law is a cop-out and the height of irresponsibility. Rights come with responsibilities both are man made constructs and defending one but not holding people to the other damages society not strengthens it. You say you want out of the mess we are in as a society with regards to the pandemic but you are prolonging the problems by defending the rights of people to act in a way that will inevitably prolong the mess we are in. 

Rights should not be separate to responsibilities, you haven't explained why someone should not have the right to be cared for, confident that, that person has been vaccinated? Particularly now evidence is mounting that vaccination does help to reduce transmission.

I’m just saying it’s unworkable. I dont think it’s a cop out, it’s simply the law. I have no opinion on whether they should have the vaccine, that’s up to them IMO.

I believe they don’t have the right not to be cared for by a vaccinated person in the same way as care home and nhs staff have never had to have the flu vaccine. I know covid is worse and more contagious, but the principle stands IMO.

But more importantly, I simply don’t think it’s workable. Simple as that. You haven’t come up with a workable solution so we’ll agree to disagree.

---

If you're talking about economical damage, yes we will feel that soon. But we won't be seeing lockdowns etc unless too many morons,and I won't change that phrasing, morons refuse the vaccine.

Fair enough, but this is the division that I’m talking about. Morons for disagreeing with you? Nice. So bucksters mom is a moron for not having the second jab after a possible reaction to the first? Really?!

In terms of economic damage, I think it’s going to be 100 times worse than most realise. I’d love to hear from anyone who knows a bit more about economics than I do though.

No that's sensible. I reacted to the first but I'll take the second due to my job and it wasn't that bad a reaction, but people with no reason to refuse it other than crap read online, are yes morons.

Most are not basing it on “crap online”. There may be some, but not most. That’s what the media have told you. I know loads of people who won’t have the vaccine and all of them have had lots of other vaccines, but they’ve weighed this up and prefer to wait/not have it. Not due to Facebook vids, but due to things like the yellow card reactions, their tiny chance of serious covid at their age, knowing someone with a reaction like Bucksters mom’s, distrust in the government, vaccine trials in the developing world etc... all sorts! The government and media have labelled everyone anti vax and planted the seed for division. Don’t fall for it.

[baggy1]

Slight issue with your example in that Buckster's mom did have the vaccine

[backsidebaggie]

Slight issue with your example in that Buckster's mom did have the vaccine

And won’t have the second one or boosters I presume, so will effectively be unvaccinated by the time the first wears off (I believe this will happen, hence the need for boosters, is that right?)

In addition, other relatives of his may not have it now due to his moms reaction, and that would be a perfectly plausible reason too. There’s lots of plausible reasons. You just don’t agree with them.

Buckster I hope I’m not being presumptuous with regards to your family, I’m just trying to point out there are many plausible reasons including your moms and many others, for not having the vaccine.

[Derek Hardballs]

Lol, I know they’ll be introduced if numbers go up. That was exactly mine and Nick’s point. We got told this wouldn’t happen due to the vaccines. The numbers will go up. I’m not telling anyone what to do mate, people are entitled to do what they want with their bodies.

We are fucked. The division this is going to create is awful. I’m not going to be part of that division by telling people what to do. It’s none of my business. I’m afraid the distrust in government will only increase with contradictions like yesterday’s between Boris and Hancock’s statements.

But I firmly believe we’re not on the home straight as some think, I firmly believe the chaos hasn’t even started yet.

It's also the right of those who need care and medical help not not to have to be cared for or treated by people who refuse to have the vaccination. If those working in Care or Health don't want the vaccination fine do another job or let it be know to those you're caring / looking after that you don't wish to be vaccinated and let the client / customer decide if they are happy to be seen by them.

No it’s not, that’s not the law at present. And as I’ve asked a few weeks ago when we had this discussion, what’s your plan when, for example, 20% refuse. Sack them? The system will collapse. You hadn’t got a workable solution then so I’ll be interested to know if you’ve come up with one now.

As an aside, if you were ill with covid in hospital, or with anything else, would you refuse treatment from a non vaccinated doctor? Or would you take the treatment?

Defending the right of those that don't want to to be vaccinated and hiding behind the law is a cop-out and the height of irresponsibility. Rights come with responsibilities both are man made constructs and defending one but not holding people to the other damages society not strengthens it. You say you want out of the mess we are in as a society with regards to the pandemic but you are prolonging the problems by defending the rights of people to act in a way that will inevitably prolong the mess we are in. 

Rights should not be separate to responsibilities, you haven't explained why someone should not have the right to be cared for, confident that, that person has been vaccinated? Particularly now evidence is mounting that vaccination does help to reduce transmission.

I’m just saying it’s unworkable. I dont think it’s a cop out, it’s simply the law. I have no opinion on whether they should have the vaccine, that’s up to them IMO.

I believe they don’t have the right not to be cared for by a vaccinated person in the same way as care home and nhs staff have never had to have the flu vaccine. I know covid is worse and more contagious, but the principle stands IMO.

But more importantly, I simply don’t think it’s workable. Simple as that. You haven’t come up with a workable solution so we’ll agree to disagree.

---

If you're talking about economical damage, yes we will feel that soon. But we won't be seeing lockdowns etc unless too many morons,and I won't change that phrasing, morons refuse the vaccine.

Fair enough, but this is the division that I’m talking about. Morons for disagreeing with you? Nice. So bucksters mom is a moron for not having the second jab after a possible reaction to the first? Really?!

In terms of economic damage, I think it’s going to be 100 times worse than most realise. I’d love to hear from anyone who knows a bit more about economics than I do though.

I completely and utterly disagree and it's putting the rights of some above others.

[baggiebuckster]

Slight issue with your example in that Buckster's mom did have the vaccine

And won’t have the second one or boosters I presume, so will effectively be unvaccinated by the time the first wears off (I believe this will happen, hence the need for boosters, is that right?)

In addition, other relatives of his may not have it now due to his moms reaction, and that would be a perfectly plausible reason too. There’s lots of plausible reasons. You just don’t agree with them.

Buckster I hope I’m not being presumptuous with regards to your family, I’m just trying to point out there are many plausible reasons including your moms and many others, for not having the vaccine.

Not at all. She has been stressing badly about the whole situation. Feels like she is now in a position with no correct decision.