Sir Tony Blair

[fuzzbox]

I had more hedonistic pursuits / hobbies at the time but I think the opposition were just as keen perhaps more so to go to war if my hazy memory is correct. Anybody who thinks that the Conservatives at the time would have said no to the US is living in a blue rosette fantasy world.

I suspect they already know this but cannot bring themselves to acknowledge it.

Of course, 412 to 149 and 94 abstensions - overwhelming. They were in possesion of the facts.
Before anyone calls Blair a liar have a look at what Chilcott said at the end of the inquiry - to quote "I absolve him from a personal and demonstrable decision to deceive parliament or the public or to state falsehoods knowing them to be false that I think he should be absolved from"

There's  no 'proof' he lied, but the dossier is now there for all to read. Along with the authors background and the sources of information. None of this was disclosed to parliament. Chilcott's report doesn't dispute this. 

You have to ask how he could have believed it was enough to launch a war?

[HugeHons]

Didn’t God tell Bush and Blair to invade??

[Pontificator]

I had more hedonistic pursuits / hobbies at the time but I think the opposition were just as keen perhaps more so to go to war if my hazy memory is correct. Anybody who thinks that the Conservatives at the time would have said no to the US is living in a blue rosette fantasy world.

I suspect they already know this but cannot bring themselves to acknowledge it.

Of course, 412 to 149 and 94 abstensions - overwhelming. They were in possesion of the facts.
Before anyone calls Blair a liar have a look at what Chilcott said at the end of the inquiry - to quote "I absolve him from a personal and demonstrable decision to deceive parliament or the public or to state falsehoods knowing them to be false that I think he should be absolved from"

There's  no 'proof' he lied, but the dossier is now there for all to read. Along with the authors background and the sources of information. None of this was disclosed to parliament. Chilcott's report doesn't dispute this. 

You have to ask how he could have believed it was enough to launch a war?

The man who clearly knew more than anyone on this, said Blair didn't lie. Blair said he did what he did in good faith. If people chose to believe anything else, that's up to them. The war was a screw up, but perhaps the person who was most responsible was the facist dictator that gassed 5000 of his own people and was clearly intent on developing more WMD if he could have done. Never let the facts get in the way of a media pile on

[Borin' Baggie]

It wasn't just that he led us into a war though, was it?

The Americans needed a pretext for war, preferably from an independent source. Blair 'found it' in a dossier claiming they had weapons of mass destruction.

it's now accepted they didn't have any such weapons and the convenient 'dossier' upon even the most rudimentary inspection was found to be based on no evidence whatsoever from a source with no credibilty. He must have known that. 

He was either a complicit lapdog of an aggressive bully or his incompetence led to a war. I know which I believe. I don't  believe hes that naive and nor do the people who still give him multimillion pound 'advisory' fees.

Leading us into a war with a powerful ally is weak, but understandable. However, making up lies for them to start the war is unforgivable.

Re. Tory approval of war. I've never voted tory, but you can hardly blame them for voting for war based on evidence that was made up.

I've never been so disappointed in a politician. Even bj hasn't lied to get us into a war. Yet.

IDS committed the Conservatives to war in Iraq before the WMD or dodgy dossier. Tory approval of war had little to do with the WMD lies, that was more about trying to gaslight the public into supporting it.

[Logic1]

I always find these debates about Blair laughable. Saddam Hussein gassed his own people and invaded Kuwait. He was asked numerous times to allow weapons inspectors in and he messed us around. It was his fault there was a war. Furthermore, the US had just had two planes flown in to the twin towers, which included British people in it. The US decided they weren't going to take any shit anymore (from anyone) and Blair made the right decision to stick with the Americans - the leaders of the free world. They came to our rescue in the 1940s. Hence, we should always stick by them. Blair made a courageous call so fair play to him. He was the leader and leaders have to make difficult decisions.

[Cheshire East Baggie]

Didn’t God tell Bush and Blair to invade??

It's the big question about Blair, why did he believe so passionately that it was the right thing to do? GW Bush was fighting his father's battle, overcoming his father's embarrassment at being a "one term president" and carrying out the war with the world which G Bush Senior's advisers had proposed. No doubts about his motivation. But why did Blair jump on board so enthusiastically? Was it a Christian thing, the Crusades re-visited? Was it to be remembered for something epic (there's a couple of bits in Nostradamus about two great men but brothers not, uniting the north against the east, or some such twaddle)? It certainly gave the world a stick to beat Labour with, and gave the Corbynite nutters the moral high ground. We've seen how well that worked out.

I'm sure a Tory government would have been in there anyway, they love a war, those biffs.

---

I always find these debates about Blair laughable. Saddam Hussein gassed his own people and invaded Kuwait. He was asked numerous times to allow weapons inspectors in and he messed us around. It was his fault there was a war. Furthermore, the US had just had two planes flown in to the twin towers, which included British people in it. The US decided they weren't going to take any shit anymore (from anyone) and Blair made the right decision to stick with the Americans - the leaders of the free world. They came to our rescue in the 1940s. Hence, we should always stick by them. Blair made a courageous call so fair play to him. He was the leader and leaders have to make difficult decisions.

This has always worried me.

[Logic1]

Yes mate, if you don't like the freedoms that are enjoyed in this country and the US, then go and live in Russia or China and you might realise what you've lost. There is a reason why so many immigrants and refugees want to come here. A reason that shouldn't be underestimated.

[SophLad]

Whilst there is no doubt America's involvement in WW2 effectively ended it, the concept that they were acting to 'rescue us' wouldnt stand up to scrutiny

[baggiebloke]

Whilst there is no doubt America's involvement in WW2 effectively ended it, the concept that they were acting to 'rescue us' wouldnt stand up to scrutiny

WWII was like a game of chess when both sides had lost so many pieces and then a queen of our colour joins in.


And indeed, the U.S.A. looks out for itself, regardless.

[bradesbaggie]

I always find these debates about Blair laughable. Saddam Hussein gassed his own people and invaded Kuwait. He was asked numerous times to allow weapons inspectors in and he messed us around. It was his fault there was a war. Furthermore, the US had just had two planes flown in to the twin towers, which included British people in it. The US decided they weren't going to take any shit anymore (from anyone) and Blair made the right decision to stick with the Americans - the leaders of the free world. They came to our rescue in the 1940s. Hence, we should always stick by them. Blair made a courageous call so fair play to him. He was the leader and leaders have to make difficult decisions.

That would be gasses supplied to Iraq by the USA? Then there is the invasion of Iran by Hussein at the behest of the USA.