Covid Vaccination ID

[Derek Hardballs]

Because he is a football manager.
Are people that easily influenced?
Why do people need persuading?

If Grealish had said it you would have some Albion fans deriding him and most of the mob from H&V running to the nearest vaccine centre.

Would Southgate be getting involved if England had bombed out in the group stages? I doubt it.

Because young people are spreading the virus disproportionately compared to the rest of society and they have a responsibility to themselves and others to try and contain and bring down infections abs subsequent pressure on the NHS. 

As England manager Southgate has some influence with younger people thanks to the way he managed England’s young players. He is trying to do what is best for the country. Instead of praise for this, he is getting stick from tin foil, Patriot 123 types, stick a firework up your bum types. I know which side of this debate I want to be on.

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No it isn't, these morons aren't going to get the vaccine no matter what. This will do nothing to convince them.

Which is a good reason many don’t want to be anywhere near them whilst they are at events, going shopping etc.

[Sliced]

I don’t have an issue with Southgate encouraging people to get the jab, I think we should encourage as many as possible to get it. However, it’s a very different proposition to excluding people from society if they don’t get it. I’m aware of at least two people who have only had one dose and won’t be getting the second. Both had bad reactions to the first dose, one has been told medically they can’t risk having the second dose and the other person is fearful of what will happen to them. Are these individuals going to have to stay at home?

I think it’s a much more nuanced discussion than a lot of people are making it. If you’re against the idea of vaccine passports it doesn’t mean that you’re against as many people getting the vaccine as possible. There are enough people in the category described above to make this virtually unworkable. We also have no idea how long protection lasts, to what extent and probably won’t for some time

[Borin' Baggie]

It's a good reason for the state to blackmail citizens, putting people crossing into eligibility for a jab and those unable to get a jab into a legal grey area where they could be discriminated against for something out of their control while simultaneously setting a dangerous precedent, not to mention the issue of feature creep?

No thanks, this is ludicrously unfair and a great erosion of civil liberties. The goal should be achieving herd immunity, convincing those who are wavering over the issue of whether it's worth it as they're not at risk, procrastinating over it and putting it off or struggling to get the vaccine who haven't fallen into the conspiracy trap and not blackmailing them. You're never going to get 100% coverage and you can't just exclude those who haven't got it.

[Derek Hardballs]

I don’t have an issue with Southgate encouraging people to get the jab, I think we should encourage as many as possible to get it. However, it’s a very different proposition to excluding people from society if they don’t get it. I’m aware of at least two people who have only had one dose and won’t be getting the second. Both had bad reactions to the first dose, one has been told medically they can’t risk having the second dose and the other person is fearful of what will happen to them. Are these individuals going to have to stay at home?

I think it’s a much more nuanced discussion than a lot of people are making it. If you’re against the idea of vaccine passports it doesn’t mean that you’re against as many people getting the vaccine as possible. There are enough people in the category described above to make this virtually unworkable. We also have no idea how long protection lasts, to what extent and probably won’t for some time

I probably should have posted the bizarre and frankly disturbing anti-Southgate stuff on a separate thread, as they are two separate points with regards to the ID. 

My argument against those who fundamentally opposed to having an ID is this, those who cannot have the vaccine will be exempt in any reasonable system. Those that refuse to have one, are marginalising themselves and putting their rights above the safety of others. You can’t argue it’s not fair that those refusing to have the jab are going to be excluded from society whilst wilfully ignoring or saying directly or indirectly it’s ok for those that can’t have the jab and who are vulnerable you have to remain indoors because someone’s ‘liberties’ are being infringed by having to say if they have had the vaccine.

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It's a good reason for the state to blackmail citizens, putting people crossing into eligibility for a jab and those unable to get a jab into a legal grey area where they could be discriminated against for something out of their control while simultaneously setting a dangerous precedent, not to mention the issue of feature creep?

No thanks, this is ludicrously unfair and a great erosion of civil liberties. The goal should be achieving herd immunity, convincing those who are wavering over the issue of whether it's worth it as they're not at risk, procrastinating over it and putting it off or struggling to get the vaccine who haven't fallen into the conspiracy trap and not blackmailing them. You're never going to get 100% coverage and you can't just exclude those who haven't got it.

Erm… those who are vulnerable and can’t have the vaccine but are exempt due to medical reasons are going to feel a lot more secure going to places like theatres and cinemas if they know that others have been vaccinated and or lateral flow tested. Still who cares about their civil liberties?

[TETLEY74]

Here’s a selection of genuine comments from people in response to Gareth Southgate encouraging young people to have the vaccine…

‘Well that’s me finished with watching England then, the straw that broke the camels back’

‘I'm emailing him, " How do you sleep at night?". Do you understand that there has only been one narrative? Do you know that healthy young people have died from this injection? If you don't , why don't you know?’

‘I've been saying since 2018 that Southgate is a Tory plant strategically placed as England coach to brainwash the working class into following their woke agenda

All this story does is further prove me right. Its so bloody obvious to anyone who actually engages with the evidence’

‘Like Springsteen. These people are supporting medical apartheid segregation. They stink with their poison. Bought and paid for social engineers of the agenda. The solution is easy.... Turn off the Television.‘

‘Taking freedom lessons from a communist is like taking marriage counselling from OJ Simpson.’

‘ Just a woke, globalist yes man, he’ll do whatever the establishment tells him the weak as pisswater prick, how else did he get the job as England manager off the back of multiple managerial failures’

‘ communist BLM supporting freemason’

‘ No problem for those who’ve had the placebo to tell people to the real drugs.’

‘ Makes me laugh when people say “Southgate is intelligent” Rolling on the floor laughing. As your Dad would say, he’s just another “left side of the brain prisoner”, blindly accepting (as gospel) and repeating everything ‘the system’ tells him.’

‘ Disgusting human being right there urging the young to get poisoned. What is wrong with these people ?’

‘ He's a piece of shyt encouraging young people to kill themselves’

‘ Not that suprised apparently he is a remainer so he is well in with the system.’

‘ I can't help but wonder what will happen to people like this after the truth is exposed. Personally I couldn't live with myself knowing I ignorantly pushed a dangerous drug on the population. Complicit in genocide by ignorance.’

‘ What a fool! He won't be remembered as a man who's transformed England into a classy international team, he'll be remembered for pushing an experimental gene therapy on kids.’

‘ Hang on, so he bends the knee for a criminal, but for for the innocent he advocates an experimental drug known to kill’

Disclaimer these are from Twitter so should be taken with that context in mind, but as a snapshot it makes depressing, scary and reading.

And none of those people will be won over by a vaccine passport, they will be entrenched in the position that the state is working against them.

Whilst they are physically well they won’t be won over full stop. However pandering to this nonsense is not the answer to getting us out of the pandemic. I imagine some of these people would find a ‘woke’ agenda in going down an air raid shelter or turning the lights out during the Blitz!

There are some seriously mixed up people in this country.

[Borin' Baggie]

Erm… those who are vulnerable and can’t have the vaccine but are exempt due to medical reasons are going to feel a lot more secure going to places like theatres and cinemas if they know that others have been vaccinated and or lateral flow tested. Still who cares about their civil liberties?

Do you honestly trust the government not to fuck this up and end up inadvertently screwing it up for those who cannot get the vaccine? Because I don't.

[baggiebuckster]

So Derek how many more jabs will you take to ensure you keep your passport?

I am sure that two jabs won't be enough and news I personally received 2 days ago makes me think this is very likely.

As Sliced said there are many that have had a bad reaction to a jab so won't take any more. Every person is in the same position in this regard. If you or a loved one had a bad reaction you would be less likely to take another so therefore would no longer be fully vaccinated. But I assume for the greater good you would be perfectly fine with being excluded from parts of society if that were the case?

[Derek Hardballs]

So Derek how many more jabs will you take to ensure you keep your passport?

I am sure that two jabs won't be enough and news I personally received 2 days ago makes me think this is very likely.

As Sliced said there are many that have had a bad reaction to a jab so won't take any more. Every person is in the same position in this regard. If you or a loved one had a bad reaction you would be less likely to take another so therefore would no longer be fully vaccinated. But I assume for the greater good you would be perfectly fine with being excluded from parts of society if that were the case?

I don’t need lectures on the greater good having had to listen to others on here and elsewhere pretty much telling the most vulnerable who can’t have the vaccine and their families… to just stay indoors and pretty much stfu.

Now it becomes a problem that others can comprehend due to the vaccine ID proposal suddenly they care about the rights of the minority. The same people suddenly found a long standing desire to look after the most vulnerable children when they wanted everything to open up. It seems politically and morally expedient to pick and choose when the rights of the vulnerable and minorities are important and when they aren’t.

[baggiebuckster]

Nobody is saying those vulnerable people don't matter but just because that problem exists doesn't mean that others have to put their own health at risk. I am not talking about out and out anti-vaxxer Bill Gates 5G lizard people - I am talking about people who have personally experienced negative health effects from the jab or witnessed it in their own families and social circles

What is clear is that there are a substantial number of people who have had a bad reaction to either the first or second dose who are either reluctant or medically advised not to take further jabs. The fact that there is almost certainly going to be booster jabs required gives an indication that any immunity is not necessarily going to be sustained. In this case does that mean that they will also be more likely to transmit the virus too?

So these people won't want another jab and therefore will be not only be restricted by the passport but also a risk to the vulnerable if the risk of increased transmission occurs. You say exclusions will apply but how many are we talking? I personally (not from social media) know 2 people who can't have another jab. My ex work colleague also has 2 family members who can't have another jab. Sliced knows two people. How many more are there out there?

[Birdman1811]

So Derek how many more jabs will you take to ensure you keep your passport?

I am sure that two jabs won't be enough and news I personally received 2 days ago makes me think this is very likely.

As Sliced said there are many that have had a bad reaction to a jab so won't take any more. Every person is in the same position in this regard. If you or a loved one had a bad reaction you would be less likely to take another so therefore would no longer be fully vaccinated. But I assume for the greater good you would be perfectly fine with being excluded from parts of society if that were the case?

I had a bad reaction. I have a nasty reaction to every vaccine, the flu one has to be administered to me in a clinical setting. I have it ever year, and I'll have any vaccine offered, because the alternative is worse.

I'd rather be ill for a day or two, than have a life threatening illness.