Sandwell Councillor defects to Reform

[Protheroe]

Ahhh so we should just be sound with genocide 

You are Cathy Newman and I claim my £5.

1. We should not be "sound" with the death of innocent people (grades 1-10) anywhere.

2. Nor should we stand shoulder to shoulder with people who do not believe the state of Israel should exist. Unfortunately many of you do just that, and anyone whose been on any of those marches certainly does. Anti-semitism laundered as "opposition to Israel".

[CarlosCorbewrong]

Frankly im angry he hasn’t seen the clear link between the streets of Dudley being a bit lively (wasn’t in the old days) and the need to find someone new to blame

I did think that, I was brought up in Dudley and can honestly say that it wasn't as safe as is being portrayed. Not certain how far back we need to go to get to a point where women could walk the streets without any hassle.

I was about 11 years old (1988) and my Dad stopped some bloke giving his missus a slap in Dudley town centre… only to get a handbag round the ears from her for his trouble. Broad daylight. British too, they were.

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

Ahhh so we should just be sound with genocide 

You are Cathy Newman and I claim my £5.

1. We should not be "sound" with the death of innocent people (grades 1-10) anywhere.

2. Nor should we stand shoulder to shoulder with people who do not believe the state of Israel should exist. Unfortunately many of you do just that, and anyone who’s been on any of those marches certainly does. Anti-semitism laundered as "opposition to Israel".

1. Never been on a march

2. I can criticise Israel and not be anti-semitic. In fact, the only true anti-semitism I see on here is people who continually weaken the true meaning by misrepresenting what it is and isn’t

3. I don’t like Hamas either 

4. I’d like the State of Israel to exist with respect for international law, life and without a bunch of far right nutcases causing the problems that they are (you say different)

[Fido]

The issue with #4 is that most of the world wants this but unfortunately not many of its neighbours do and that's essentially where the problems lie. Israel is not, of course, completely innocent and there have been years of land being stolen by settlers, for example, displacing people who have lived there for generations. However, a lot of the aggression, before more recent events, was often either instigated by attacks on Israel or by pre-emptive attacks by them to stop the same. Nowhere is more heavily fortified per capita and for good reason. I would put it to you that they could abide by every international law and be completely non-confrontational and they would still be attacked. And attacks on Jews would still go on elsewhere.

Despite a lot of media focussing on "Islamophobia", attacks on Muslims are often triggered by worldwide events perpetrated by other Muslims. Is that right? Of course not. But there is often a call to follow for some of that faith against those they consider their perpetual enemy. One key difference for me between the two faiths is that the Jewish faith, despite its longer history and tradition, does question itself and devotes a lot of time and resource to it. The Muslim faith doesn't allow this and strongly opposes anyone that question the "word of God". We've seen the consequences of this when cartoonists or journalists have had their free speech curtailed by weapons. 

Not for one second would I say that Jews are good, Muslims are bad or that what has gone on in Palestine isn't at this point little short of mass murder. But I would also say that regardless of how Jews conduct themselves, or more so the government in Israel that represents many of them, they will still always feel under the threat of attack, simply because it's always there and has been for hundreds of years.

[Pontificator]

Ahhh so we should just be sound with genocide 

You are Cathy Newman and I claim my £5.

1. We should not be "sound" with the death of innocent people (grades 1-10) anywhere.

2. Nor should we stand shoulder to shoulder with people who do not believe the state of Israel should exist. Unfortunately many of you do just that, and anyone who’s been on any of those marches certainly does. Anti-semitism laundered as "opposition to Israel".

1. Never been on a march

2. I can criticise Israel and not be anti-semitic. In fact, the only true anti-semitism I see on here is people who continually weaken the true meaning by misrepresenting what it is and isn’t

3. I don’t like Hamas either 

4. I’d like the State of Israel to exist with respect for international law, life and without a bunch of far right nutcases causing the problems that they are (you say different)

You mean like you weaken the meaning of genocide 

Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
   
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
   
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
   
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
   
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
   

The key elements are:

• The intent to destroy (intent is essential),
  
• The group must be national, ethnic, racial, or religious,
  
• At least one of the listed acts must be committed.
  

[man in the corner shop]

Ahhh so we should just be sound with genocide 

You are Cathy Newman and I claim my £5.

1. We should not be "sound" with the death of innocent people (grades 1-10) anywhere.

2. Nor should we stand shoulder to shoulder with people who do not believe the state of Israel should exist. Unfortunately many of you do just that, and anyone who’s been on any of those marches certainly does. Anti-semitism laundered as "opposition to Israel".

1. Never been on a march

2. I can criticise Israel and not be anti-semitic. In fact, the only true anti-semitism I see on here is people who continually weaken the true meaning by misrepresenting what it is and isn’t

3. I don’t like Hamas either 

4. I’d like the State of Israel to exist with respect for international law, life and without a bunch of far right nutcases causing the problems that they are (you say different)

Quite. I will put this up again for the hard of thinking and the just plain prejudiced 

https://youtube.com/shorts/9yz0sIG5CEU?s...vLRk40V14R

[CarlosCorbewrong]

Ahhh so we should just be sound with genocide 

You are Cathy Newman and I claim my £5.

1. We should not be "sound" with the death of innocent people (grades 1-10) anywhere.

2. Nor should we stand shoulder to shoulder with people who do not believe the state of Israel should exist. Unfortunately many of you do just that, and anyone who’s been on any of those marches certainly does. Anti-semitism laundered as "opposition to Israel".

1. Never been on a march

2. I can criticise Israel and not be anti-semitic. In fact, the only true anti-semitism I see on here is people who continually weaken the true meaning by misrepresenting what it is and isn’t

3. I don’t like Hamas either 

4. I’d like the State of Israel to exist with respect for international law, life and without a bunch of far right nutcases causing the problems that they are (you say different)

You mean like you weaken the meaning of genocide 

Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
   
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
   
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
   
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
   
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
   

The key elements are:

• The intent to destroy (intent is essential),
  
• The group must be national, ethnic, racial, or religious,
  
• At least one of the listed acts must be committed.
  

Just for clarity - which of those elements do you think have NOT been met?

[Jacko]

CF on very shaky ground here.

Neck on it.

[Ted Maul]

It's got to the stage of the discussion where someone usually points out that extremes on both sides push the other further away from anything resembling an amicable truce (see also Brexit). We should acknowledge this before repeating it again next week in another thread about the Middle East.

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

CF on very shaky ground here.

Neck on it.

Only in the mind of the true anti semites who have the audacity to abuse the term and reshape it for their own ends