Sandwell Councillor defects to Reform

[baggy1]

Not wanting to jump into the fray here as I'm trying to avoid this row. However I see Proths post on gradation as badly worded when the intent was likelihood of innocent deaths grades higher in a war zone. The reasons for that war is obvious, Hamas were concerned that Israel and Saudi Arabia were about to sign an accord, they decided to commit a heinous crime to get a reaction, Israel provided that reaction and then went some.

Recognition of a Palestine State is not an issue here if that State can be a peaceful one. ISIS and their ideology, who are down but not entirely out are the perpetrators of the crimes around the globe as we have seen the last few days and months. One of the side effects of Israel going too far is the reviving of an ideology. In the same way that Israel reacted to the horrific crime that Hamas committed by bombing and killing, the cycle of hate continues as people who watch their children get killed from both sides will want revenge.

Minor correction, Hamas didn't care about the Saudi - Israel deal. Iran did and they used their proxies to sabotage it.

Good point

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

Bless you for being so generous in your interpretation baggy1. That’s a nice trait

[CarlosCorbewrong]

Bless you for being so generous in your interpretation baggy1. That’s a nice trait

Sensible. Respectful.

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

Gentler. Kinder. Leftarded.

[Squid]

Asking what Israel should have done is a deflection and irrelevant to stating that you think the 17000 dead children are less “innocent” or having less sadness that such lives have been taken. I don’t know whether it’s a diversion from that statement or just a genuine misguided belief that asking this question is somehow relevant to the point in hand. It isnt, and I wouldn’t do it the misservice of answering it in such a context.

It's wholly relevant. I doubt we'd be having a conversation about dead Jews on a beach in Australia had Hamas not indulged in a festival of rape and murder on October 7th.

The politicians of the Left globally also have blood on their hands for their recognition of a Palestinian state. Some good that did the Jews of Manchester and Sydney.

I was fortunate enough to meet a Holocaust survivor regularly (a family friend) when I was very young. She always talked about having a bag packed, just in case. With the succour provided by well meaning but ultimately deluded people I've truly understood why for some time.

For many Jews, this is increasingly what the world feels like — a place where they are either being vilified, or slaughtered, or sent thoughts and prayers, but never protected.

The West must stand unequivocally against the evil ideology that wrought this latest massacre, not just in word but in deed. The guns that today slaughter Jews will tomorrow turn on others.

What does this actually mean? 

Banning anyone from telling the truth about what the Israeli state is doing to others?

Supporting Israel in killing an ever more diverse group of Arabs? First Palestinians, then the Lebanese, now Syrians (including children)

You accuse others of crocodile tears, but you fail to understand that the Israeli state will only survive if can have genuinely peaceful relations with it's neighbours and engaging in mass genocide will not help those matters.

[Protheroe]

What does this actually mean? 

I'll spell it out. Jewish inhabitants of Western countries have been and are being thrown under the bus by progressives.

My friends' kids in North London go to school behind 20ft walls topped with razor wire and protected by security guards. The CST has over 2,000 volunteers working to protect places of worship and areas where large numbers of Jews gather. Why on Earth is this necessary in a modern Western state?

It's because extremists aided and abetted by useful progressive idiots have conspired to conflate the Israeli State's behaviour with international Jewry -  by allowing hate marches on our streets, and they are hate marches - week after week, month after month, then the utterly pointless posturing of recognising a Palestinian "State" which even the rulers of Gaza & the West Bank don't want (having rejected the notion every time its been offered). 

Extremists have used the freedoms they enjoy in this country to intimidate another minority, and worse. It's a fucking outrage that it is acceptable behaviour but unfortunately typical of high status progressive types, you know Squid the same folk who want to impose their will on my daughters' safety and dignity by letting men in frocks into their changing rooms.

It's just this sort of shit which is pushing otherwise reasonable people towards Reform, the other end of the extreme horseshoe.

What does it actually mean?

Our Jewish communities need to be defended now more than ever.

[Pontificator]

I'm not on board with MrP's economics and he has been proved absolutely wrong on BREXIT, but he has said nothing wrong on this thread. Many of you antizionist river to the sea mob accept harmful myths about Israel but you should recognise that HAMAS bullshit propaganda rests on demonstrable falsehoods and dubious data, claims of famine, deliberate civilian killings and genocide in Gaza, is just used to demonise and delegitimise the world’s only Jewish state and you've fallen it for hook line and sinker.

[Squid]

I'm not on board with MrP's economics and he has been proved absolutely wrong on BREXIT, but he has said nothing wrong on this thread. Many of you antizionist river to the sea mob accept harmful myths about Israel but you should recognise that HAMAS bullshit propaganda rests on demonstrable falsehoods and dubious data, claims of famine, deliberate civilian killings and genocide in Gaza, is just used to demonise and delegitimise the world’s only Jewish state and you've fallen it for hook line and sinker.

Here is footage of a 16 year old boy being shot dead, today in the West Bank by Israeli settlers.
The settlers are likely to face no legal or criminal consequences whatsoever for this, because the Israeli state view this behaviour as acceptable:

https://x.com/i/status/2000896388469596173

Yet you accuse others of falling for propaganda.


Proth - the Israeli state and the useful idiots who support them are the ones constantly conflating world Jewry with Israel.

Calling protests you don't like "hate marches" is banal and unconvincing.

As is claiming that we need to give the thumbs up to the genocide of Palestinians and Israel destabilising the whole region otherwise people will vote Reform.

[Pontificator]

I'm not on board with MrP's economics and he has been proved absolutely wrong on BREXIT, but he has said nothing wrong on this thread. Many of you antizionist river to the sea mob accept harmful myths about Israel but you should recognise that HAMAS bullshit propaganda rests on demonstrable falsehoods and dubious data, claims of famine, deliberate civilian killings and genocide in Gaza, is just used to demonise and delegitimise the world’s only Jewish state and you've fallen it for hook line and sinker.

Here is footage of a 16 year old boy being shot dead, today in the West Bank by Israeli settlers.
The settlers are likely to face no legal or criminal consequences whatsoever for this, because the Israeli state view this behaviour as acceptable:

https://x.com/i/status/2000896388469596173

Yet you accuse others of falling for propaganda.


Proth - the Israeli state and the useful idiots who support them are the ones constantly conflating world Jewry with Israel.

Calling protests you don't like "hate marches" is banal and unconvincing.

As is claiming that we need to give the thumbs up to the genocide of Palestinians and Israel destabilising the whole region otherwise people will vote Reform.

Not worth a replly

[Shabby Russian]

I'm not on board with MrP's economics and he has been proved absolutely wrong on BREXIT, but he has said nothing wrong on this thread. Many of you antizionist river to the sea mob accept harmful myths about Israel but you should recognise that HAMAS bullshit propaganda rests on demonstrable falsehoods and dubious data, claims of famine, deliberate civilian killings and genocide in Gaza, is just used to demonise and delegitimise the world’s only Jewish state and you've fallen it for hook line and sinker.

Here is footage of a 16 year old boy being shot dead, today in the West Bank by Israeli settlers.
The settlers are likely to face no legal or criminal consequences whatsoever for this, because the Israeli state view this behaviour as acceptable:

https://x.com/i/status/2000896388469596173

Yet you accuse others of falling for propaganda.


Proth - the Israeli state and the useful idiots who support them are the ones constantly conflating world Jewry with Israel.

Calling protests you don't like "hate marches" is banal and unconvincing.

As is claiming that we need to give the thumbs up to the genocide of Palestinians and Israel destabilising the whole region otherwise people will vote Reform.

Not worth a replly

But worthy of a reply.