Think I have unearthed Proth

[Borin' Baggie]

Punished - another Arf. Get over yourself. Brexit would only ever have worked in a vacuum, you ignored that and now complain we don't live in a vacuum.

The absolutely hilarious thing here is that I'm pretty confident that I was the biggest proponent of "soft Brexit" (i.e. staying in the single market) - though maybe Hudds also covers that, even leaving the Lib Dems over their refusal to have it on the table and Proth here acted like I was the archetype "Remoaner" for that. And now that's what he's always wanted!

[Ted Maul]

Without going over too much old ground it does feel like the EFTA, single market discussion should have been had before the country was sent to the polls.

I wonder if the 52% would all agree that was the type of Brexit they voted for? If not the majority crumbles and the obvious play is to reverse jt.

[Protheroe]

Punished - another Arf. Get over yourself. Brexit would only ever have worked in a vacuum, you ignored that and now complain we don't live in a vacuum.

---

And again you assume everyone will suffer and you know better. Fuck sake mon, get over yourself

All you will have to do is look at behaviour.

Reeves believes she will raise £4.7bn from NI on salary sacrifice. She won't.

Reeves believes she will raise extra revenue from increasing Dividend Tax by 22%. She won't.

Reeves believes that by ultimately dragging 78% more people into Higher Tax than paid it in 2020 will raise revenue. It won't.

Even at the lower end of the payscale there is now a massive disincentive to working more than 20 hours a week on Minimum Wage.

They're clueless. They're borrowing more money in the hope that this revenue lands at the end of the Parliament. The OBR says it's the toss of a coin that this will happen.

Read The Economist, listen to any respected economic commentator. She's done nothing for growth. She's compressing wages into a narrow band, and into system racked with distortions and disincentives. People aren't as daft as you think. They notice these things and act rationally.

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

Without going over too much old ground it does feel like the EFTA, single market discussion should have been had before the country was sent to the polls.

I wonder if the 52% would all agree that was the type of Brexit they voted for? If not the majority crumbles and the obvious play is to reverse jt.

100% spot on

[Protheroe]

And now that's what he's always wanted!

Hardly. I wanted Singapore on Thames, however I think Parliament should have had the opportunity to consider all outcomes. Instead our MPs spent most of their time attempting to reverse the decision.

[baggy1]

And you consider that rational behaviour is that people will stop striving to earn more, or even more rational where they leave the country? We really have arrived at chicken licken season again.

I'll let you into a secret, people are addicted to earning money, when you pass a threshold your income will still go up, just not as much. People will keep earning and paying taxes anyway mainly because they aren't on the glidepath and haven't got to our position where they have options.

---

And now that's what he's always wanted!

Hardly. I wanted Singapore on Thames, however I think Parliament should have had the opportunity to consider all outcomes. Instead our MPs spent most of their time attempting to reverse the decision.

And if you'd have put that to the general public as the only option with all the pros and cons, do you think you'd have got a majority? Or do you think that the protest vote would have been significantly less enthused. Brexit wasn't democracy, it was opportunism and lies.

[Protheroe]

And you consider that rational behaviour is that people will stop striving to earn more, or even more rational where they leave the country? 

Yes I do.

I know many Tradesmen who now work up to the VAT threshold and no further as it's wholly contrary to their interests to do so. They either evade tax for cash jobs or go on holiday for a few months.

If you're PAYE between £100-125K your marginal rate of tax is 62%. I don't know anyone willing to donate their labour in return for 32p in the pound, which is why you're seeing so many professionals reducing hours.

And you haven't even attempted to answer the point about graduates even in Teaching earning barely above the minimum wage after taking Plan 2 into account.

If you have the means it's perfectly rational to leave a country in a doom loop. The migration statistics prove this with the exodus of Eastern Europeans to much more dynamic economies, let alone HNWI.

[baggy1]

The best yet - Eastern Europeans aren't leaving because they don't have freedom of movement any more, it's to do with the doom loop. A perfect example of see what you want to - nothing to do with Brexit, dickheads hanging flags everywhere, or the tightening of rules around their UK status at all. All to do with the economic doom loop and nothing else.

On Graduates - I've commented on my thoughts around graduates. If I were advising my two again I would tell them to avoid University completely (1 did, 1 didn't) as the debt you come out with is not worth it. Professional qualifications through employment or apprenticeships all day long. If you're advising sending your kids to Uni these days you need to really advise them of all of the benefits and costs and tell them it really isn't a piss up and gap year lifestyle any more.

You paint traders taking cash to avoid VAT as something new, it's as old as the hills. And if they can't see how cash is becoming a lost art and they will be painting themselves into a corner then they are talking to the wrong people.

I've already agreed on the threshold being painful and a disincentive but I'll guarantee those that give it large down the club about not working through it, or leaving the country because of this Labour Government when you'd think they'd introduced anything new, will take that pay rise if they need the money.

Simple solution to it all - Get some stability, Rejoin the EU, increase our Trade, rejoin the Dublin agreement and we can try and stop the chaos. Since Brexit vote we've had 6 PMs, the 6 before that takes us back to 1976.

[man in the corner shop]

Without going over too much old ground it does feel like the EFTA, single market discussion should have been had before the country was sent to the polls.

I wonder if the 52% would all agree that was the type of Brexit they voted for? If not the majority crumbles and the obvious play is to reverse jt.

It was the wrong type of Brexit and a failure of statecraft. Be told.

And I and many, many others did mention EFTA, single market and cake eating before the polls.

[Protheroe]

The best yet - Eastern Europeans aren't leaving because they don't have freedom of movement any more, it's to do with the doom loop. A perfect example of see what you want to - nothing to do with Brexit, dickheads hanging flags everywhere, or the tightening of rules around their UK status at all. All to do with the economic doom loop and nothing else.

On Graduates - I've commented on my thoughts around graduates. If I were advising my two again I would tell them to avoid University completely (1 did, 1 didn't) as the debt you come out with is not worth it. Professional qualifications through employment or apprenticeships all day long. If you're advising sending your kids to Uni these days you need to really advise them of all of the benefits and costs and tell them it really isn't a piss up and gap year lifestyle any more.

You paint traders taking cash to avoid VAT as something new, it's as old as the hills. And if they can't see how cash is becoming a lost art and they will be painting themselves into a corner then they are talking to the wrong people.

I've already agreed on the threshold being painful and a disincentive but I'll guarantee those that give it large down the club about not working through it, or leaving the country because of this Labour Government when you'd think they'd introduced anything new, will take that pay rise if they need the money.

Simple solution to it all - Get some stability, Rejoin the EU, increase our Trade, rejoin the Dublin agreement and we can try and stop the chaos. Since Brexit vote we've had 6 PMs, the 6 before that takes us back to 1976.

"Simple solution". I wonder why the government hasn't thought about it. Seems a damn sight more simple than creating ever more distortions and disincentives to work, save or start / run  a business.