Elon

[Jacko]

You summon the US ambassador, you don't send the British ambassador.

And Davey's point is that we can't trust the US as an ally if members of the US government are amplifying calls to invade the UK and pressure the king to overthrow our democratic institutions, much as you can't trust a US government that wants to start a fucking trade war with us or is openly saying that they want to take allied territories like Greenland. You're embarrassing yourself.

I was pre-empting the US ambassador rejecting the summons tbh.

We're allied to the US as ironically enough a junior contributor, and as much as certain people would prefer us not to be after the election the fact remains.

This Labour government will do everything in its power to cosy up to Trump, they'd be mental not to, whether that's unpalatable is another story. Look at the recent changes on the board at Meta, it all ties in. You do your best for the next 4 years to stay on Trump's good side.

[Borin' Baggie]

Why would the US ambassador cause a diplomatic incident over a ketamine-brained twat that is agitating for Tommy fucking Robinson to be released exactly? If telling the US government to keep Musk in check is that much of a problem then we evidently cannot trust the US government anymore.

If the Labour government want to get anything out of Trump's administration they need leverage. Do you think it's a coincidence that Norway and Iceland have started talking about joining the EU over the last couple of months? Why would playing up as America's lapdog help when they will just fuck us over at their whim because we have no leverage, and if that happens then what? They're a complete wildcard, we can't trust them on issues of defence and we need to have leverage and contingency, we do that through Europe as they're both right next to us and share the same immediate geopolitical threats as us. Having someone who is undermining our democracy that close to the Trump administration should spell that out to anyone with more than one braincell.

[Jacko]

Why would the US ambassador cause a diplomatic incident over a ketamine-brained twat that is agitating for Tommy fucking Robinson to be released exactly? If telling the US government to keep Musk in check is that much of a problem then we evidently cannot trust the US government anymore.

If the Labour government want to get anything out of Trump's administration they need leverage. Do you think it's a coincidence that Norway and Iceland have started talking about joining the EU over the last couple of months? Why would playing up as America's lapdog help when they will just fuck us over at their whim because we have no leverage, and if that happens then what? They're a complete wildcard, we can't trust them on issues of defence and we need to have leverage and contingency, we do that through Europe as they're both right next to us and share the same immediate geopolitical threats as us. Having someone who is undermining our democracy that close to the Trump administration should spell that out to anyone with more than one braincell.

You genuinely believe this don't you? All going back cap in hand to the EU would do is give them leverage over us, not us leverage over the US. Starmer and Labour's approval rating is currently 16%, the last thing they will do is reopen the old wounds of Brexit. Iceland and Norway haven't acrimoniously left the EU so it's completely different for them.

I do like this idyll you've created in your mind though, Ketamine you say? Hopefully it is robust enough to see you through the next 4 years.

[Borin' Baggie]

You're the one who wants us to be a lapdog to a US President who has already started a trade war with us once before and has said he wants to put tariffs on one of our strongest export sectors, not to mention is extremely unreliable on defence. Not to mention sticking up for Elon fucking Musk after the past few days of him trying to undermine our country.

You don't need to rejoin the fucking EU to work with them on defence or trade, I swear to fuck that Brexit has absolutely rotted the brains of some people and any level of pragmatic thinking with EU relations that has nothing to do with joining it or even the single market is so bad that they want us to pander to people who have declared they want to cause economic harm or worse instead because they can't work out that the giant thing right next door to us has similar trade and defence goals. Do you think that the EU would not also have a vested interest in working closely with the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore etc to counterbalance American neuroticism? Or Canada? Or Panama? If we do what you want and go suck lines of Elon's ket before giving Trump a rimjob and ending up with shit on our nose and then Trump goes and slaps 100% tariffs on our pharmaceutical and engineering plant and we've not bothered to liberalise trade with other partners as a contingency then what? He's got us by the fucking balls. Seriously, get some fucking perspective, Trump's America is not our friend and it isn't "America First but with the UK" or "Make American and the UK Great Again". Trump's interests and priorities do not align with the UK's on defence and trade.

[Jacko]

I don't want us to be anything. I'm saying what I think is likely to happen, it is just my opinion on the direction of travel... You appear to be posting what you'd like to happen or think should happen as opposed to what you think will happen. Folk on here (Worcs etc.) were much the same during the US election.

Realistically, what do you think the chances are of Starmer going along similar lines to your proposals? I'd genuinely like to know.

[Derek Hardballs]

Why would the US ambassador cause a diplomatic incident over a ketamine-brained twat that is agitating for Tommy fucking Robinson to be released exactly? If telling the US government to keep Musk in check is that much of a problem then we evidently cannot trust the US government anymore.

If the Labour government want to get anything out of Trump's administration they need leverage. Do you think it's a coincidence that Norway and Iceland have started talking about joining the EU over the last couple of months? Why would playing up as America's lapdog help when they will just fuck us over at their whim because we have no leverage, and if that happens then what? They're a complete wildcard, we can't trust them on issues of defence and we need to have leverage and contingency, we do that through Europe as they're both right next to us and share the same immediate geopolitical threats as us. Having someone who is undermining our democracy that close to the Trump administration should spell that out to anyone with more than one braincell.

You genuinely believe this don't you? All going back cap in hand to the EU would do is give them leverage over us, not us leverage over the US. Starmer and Labour's approval rating is currently 16%, the last thing they will do is reopen the old wounds of Brexit. Iceland and Norway haven't acrimoniously left the EU so it's completely different for them.

I do like this idyll you've created in your mind though, Ketamine you say? Hopefully it is robust enough to see you through the next 4 years.

We have no leverage over the US or the EU the latter thanks to Brexity numpties like Farage… oh hang on!

[Borin' Baggie]

Err, they've already started? John Healey made quite a public statement on a UK-EU Defence Pact and we've already signed a bilateral defence deal with Germany. Starmer is attending an EU summit next month to discuss trade liberalisation and the UK Government and European Commission are already sounding out energy policy alignment. Not just the EU either, Norway on both defence and energy has signed agreements with us because of Trump and there's already political pressure from Labour politicians to minimise the risk of the US screwing us and Australia over AUKUS by pushing to get other Indo-Pacific allies involved. I also doubt the timing of seemingly opening ourselves back up to trade with China was a coincidence either.

This isn't in my head, the US elected someone who's said he wants to add tariffs and undermine European and Indo-Pacific defence strategies so countries have started acting including us. Pax Americana and US global hegemony only works if the US is a trustworthy ally which under Trump they are not.

[baggy1]

I love the idea that us getting closer to the EU will make Starmer’s popularity worse. As if the Brexit voting public are saying “you know I’m giving Starmer a chance’.

Getting closer to Europe will improve Starmers ratings

[Derek Hardballs]

I love the idea that us getting closer to the EU will make Starmer’s popularity worse. As if the Brexit voting public are saying “you know I’m giving Starmer a chance’.

Getting closer to Europe will improve Starmers ratings

Quite

[Jacko]

I love the idea that us getting closer to the EU will make Starmer’s popularity worse. As if the Brexit voting public are saying “you know I’m giving Starmer a chance’.

Getting closer to Europe will improve Starmers ratings

Not with the voters he needs, it'll just bring back some Lib Dems and the prior socialist wing of his own party who have probably defected to Lib Dem any way. No good boosting it to 20% if it's only voters you'd look to build a coalition with any way.

I dont believe there are swathes of Tories/Reform voters and abstainers waiting for a leader to moot rejoining.
.