Petrol and Diesel

[Derek Hardballs]

Hmm, you joined a political party, campaigned for years for a political party, you went to party conferences and worked within the local party system. If that’s a shrug of the shoulders at your ambivalence to politics like ‘most people’, then I imagine you’d do the Fosbury Flop if you were bothered.

Ambivalence is the best policy when there's no political party that represents my interests whatsoever. I have left, it's no longer anything to do with me. I tried and failed to promote liberal values and sound money. 

I accept I've lost. So for now my sole focus will be my businesses and family.

The alternative is to rail against the dying of the light and ultimately, madness.

Very honourable of you, but you seem to forget you left the party because they closed schools in a pandemic situation and it put you and Mrs P out at the time. It was nothing to do with the lying, hands in the till, incompetence and general shithousery that has been going on for the last 10 years of this party

I left the Party over the damage to my kids' and other kids' education, not that it "put me and Mrs P out".

As for the other issues I'm adult enough to understand that the hands in the till, incompetence and general shithousery of British politics are no worse than most states and far far less damaging than every non-democratic country in the world. The most recent lot have simply been very poor at hiding it - almost as bad as Brown's bribe to Rosyth.

So you departed from the bosom of the Conservative party because they were trying to keep people safe and not because of cronyism (you would be all over this if it was Sandwell council), industrial scale use of shall we say alternative facts and gaslighting! Ever think that your time spent in the party may have jaded your outlook on things?

[Protheroe]

almost as bad as Brown's bribe to Rosyth.

You'll have to expand on this one for me

The TOBA agreement Brown signed in 2009 for these that bound the hands of the next 3 governments to an already strategically delusional project.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/giant...-vzg0pshtb

[baggy1]

almost as bad as Brown's bribe to Rosyth.

You'll have to expand on this one for me

The TOBA agreement Brown signed in 2009 for these that bound the hands of the next 3 governments to an already strategically delusional project.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/giant...-vzg0pshtb

So just so I'm clear a defence deal that was agreed and signed through parliament is nearly as bad as Tory MPs providing contracts worth millions to their funders and friends through a undisclosed procurement process which have mainly failed to deliver whilst ignoring established providers of the equipment.

[Derek Hardballs]

almost as bad as Brown's bribe to Rosyth.

You'll have to expand on this one for me

The TOBA agreement Brown signed in 2009 for these that bound the hands of the next 3 governments to an already strategically delusional project.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/giant...-vzg0pshtb

So just so I'm clear a defence deal that was agreed and signed through parliament is nearly as bad as Tory MPs providing contracts worth millions to their funders and friends through a undisclosed procurement process which have mainly failed to deliver whilst ignoring established providers of the equipment.

Come on now, don’t you remember how comfortable he was with the whole lack of proper procurement process a year or so ago? Now wearing a mask or trying to keep people safe during lockdown that was a step too far!

[Protheroe]

almost as bad as Brown's bribe to Rosyth.

You'll have to expand on this one for me

The TOBA agreement Brown signed in 2009 for these that bound the hands of the next 3 governments to an already strategically delusional project.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/giant...-vzg0pshtb

So just so I'm clear a defence deal that was agreed and signed through parliament is nearly as bad as Tory MPs providing contracts worth millions to their funders and friends through a undisclosed procurement process which have mainly failed to deliver whilst ignoring established providers of the equipment.

Well, yes. If you're against pork barrel politics by the Tories then you have to be consistent. This was an electoral bribe, pure and simple to contractors and their employees in (former) Labour Heartlands.

[baggy1]

almost as bad as Brown's bribe to Rosyth.

You'll have to expand on this one for me

The TOBA agreement Brown signed in 2009 for these that bound the hands of the next 3 governments to an already strategically delusional project.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/giant...-vzg0pshtb

So just so I'm clear a defence deal that was agreed and signed through parliament is nearly as bad as Tory MPs providing contracts worth millions to their funders and friends through a undisclosed procurement process which have mainly failed to deliver whilst ignoring established providers of the equipment.

Well, yes. If you're against pork barrel politics by the Tories then you have to be consistent. This was an electoral bribe, pure and simple to contractors and their employees in (former) Labour Heartlands.

You are genuniely comparing an electoral 'bribe' or pledge to create / save jobs as it is also known (which effectively is politics - vote for us, we'll give you this) to Tory MPs taking taxpayers money and giving it to their mates who will longer term look after the MP in return. 

Games gone Tom!

[Derek Hardballs]

You'll have to expand on this one for me

The TOBA agreement Brown signed in 2009 for these that bound the hands of the next 3 governments to an already strategically delusional project.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/giant...-vzg0pshtb

So just so I'm clear a defence deal that was agreed and signed through parliament is nearly as bad as Tory MPs providing contracts worth millions to their funders and friends through a undisclosed procurement process which have mainly failed to deliver whilst ignoring established providers of the equipment.

Well, yes. If you're against pork barrel politics by the Tories then you have to be consistent. This was an electoral bribe, pure and simple to contractors and their employees in (former) Labour Heartlands.

You are genuniely comparing an electoral 'bribe' or pledge to create / save jobs as it is also known (which effectively is politics - vote for us, we'll give you this) to Tory MPs taking taxpayers money and giving it to their mates who will longer term look after the MP in return. 

Games gone Tom!

Proth seems to think that this government actions are the norm. They aren’t, they have gone further than any other government than I can remember to undermine Parliament. The only thing he doesn’t support is when they show the merest hint of helping people less fortunate than himself. It’s a bizarre view of politics but hey ho.

[Protheroe]

You are genuniely comparing an electoral 'bribe' or pledge to create / save jobs as it is also known (which effectively is politics - vote for us, we'll give you this) to Tory MPs taking taxpayers money and giving it to their mates who will longer term look after the MP in return. 

Games gone Tom!

Erm, it wasn't a "pledge", it was a direct order in 2007 that went against all strategic defence logic. In the 2009 TOBA change Brown deliberately made the contract financially impossible for a future government to cancel.  

The contractors, unions and employees were bought. It's as plain a case of pork barrel politics as you'll ever see.

If you can't see that then you're as one eyed as Brown is.

---

[baggy1]

You are genuniely comparing an electoral 'bribe' or pledge to create / save jobs as it is also known (which effectively is politics - vote for us, we'll give you this) to Tory MPs taking taxpayers money and giving it to their mates who will longer term look after the MP in return. 

Games gone Tom!

Erm, it wasn't a "pledge", it was a direct order in 2007 that went against all strategic defence logic. In the 2009 TOBA change Brown deliberately made the contract financially impossible for a future government to cancel.  

The contractors, unions and employees were bought. It's as plain a case of pork barrel politics as you'll ever see.

If you can't see that then you're as one eyed as Brown is.

And you comparing it to the current mob literally having their hands in the till is no eyed. They're crooks and they are handing out contracts to their mates in return for future payment and / or employment. This isn't pork barrel politics, this is theft and corruption of the highest order and all you want to do is play at piss poor whataboutery. There are times in life you need to grow some and admit they are crooks to save some face, by making weak comparisons you undermine the good points that you do make.

[Protheroe]

Who 'literally' has their hand in the till?