Manchester Arndale stabbings

[Baggiejacko]

Australian gun rules virtually changed overnight after Sandy Hook. From being able to have a gun to not. I really don't see how changing the punishment for carrying a blade would be so difficult to apply and enforce

Edit, sorry it wasn't Sandy Hook I'm getting confused

[Morley]

Sorry that’s bollocks. There aren’t exactly a lot of convictions for all these stabbings. People won’t give evidence/report things due to the gang culture that surrounds them. Understanding the issue is the only way to begin to fix it.

Now you are talking bollocks. Under the Singaporean system you don't need any evidence other than possession. Carry the knife do the time for the crime you intended, that is how it works and they have almost no crime. You may not like it and having lived there it is not a system that everyone will like but it works very well for them.

We aren’t Singapore.

And?

So the idea it’ll work here would take huge changes in how we live.

It would. Is it worth it though? I'm not expecting an answer by the way, I'm not even sure there is one. Even though we probably disagree on the method we all realise that something needs to be done.

[Tom Joad]

Increasing punishments for carrying won’t stop people getting stabbed, it will reduce it but tackling the problem at the root cause will have more of an effect.

Agreed. So surely doing both should be a start? Further, there is no need for the controversial stop and search either. With technology, police could scan people for weapons without laying a hand or singling someone out. I think the answers are there, the will to implement them is the problem.

[Sotv]

As someone involved in the media, I think sometimes critical thinking is needed more when we discuss topics.
Knife crime is bad, no doubt, it is on the rise, but context has to be given and at the moment it's a topic of the time that's grabbed the imagination.
There has always been people who are mental who will lose the plot and do this. It happened about 20 years ago in Rackhams in Brum. Trouble is video and social media bring these incidents to life in a technicolour way that they couldn't a generation ago.
Also, it is worth adding, the vast majority of knife crime remains gang related etc.
This in no way tries to poo poo this serious matter, and I've a son who I'll worry about in a few years time, when he is out.
However, it's always gone on and in the words of Nick Ross, it's very rare and do sleep  tonight.
Have a nice weekend people

I had to have a word with my lad last week. He came back fom school all dissapointed that an older lad he had arranged to meet up with for scrap didn't turn up! All i could think about was the lad who got stabbed to death last year in the same spot where he had gone and my mate who once got ambushed after arranging to collect a stolen mobile phone. 
I'm not sure if knife crime really is any worse than when we were younger or is it just over reported? Are there more recorded crimes involving knives than say 30 years ago when i was younger?

What a bizzare thing to do!? 

it was bit more complicated than i made it sound. The phone belonged to a friend of his who had ran into some trouble and got robbed. The guy i knew had a loose association with the group who took it, more like friends of friends so he thought he was acting as a bit of go between. Imagine Terry Waite in a shellshuit and you wont be far off the role he thought he was playing. 
Turned out this lot he only loosely knew were only interested in carving out a reputation for themselves and that involved attempting to carve my mate out with a machete in Pype Hayes park!

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I had to have a word with my lad last week. He came back fom school all dissapointed that an older lad he had arranged to meet up with for scrap didn't turn up! All i could think about was the lad who got stabbed to death last year in the same spot where he had gone and my mate who once got ambushed after arranging to collect a stolen mobile phone. 
I'm not sure if knife crime really is any worse than when we were younger or is it just over reported? Are there more recorded crimes involving knives than say 30 years ago when i was younger?

Strange on so many levels!

care to elaborate on those levels??

---

As someone involved in the media, I think sometimes critical thinking is needed more when we discuss topics.
Knife crime is bad, no doubt, it is on the rise, but context has to be given and at the moment it's a topic of the time that's grabbed the imagination.
There has always been people who are mental who will lose the plot and do this. It happened about 20 years ago in Rackhams in Brum. Trouble is video and social media bring these incidents to life in a technicolour way that they couldn't a generation ago.
Also, it is worth adding, the vast majority of knife crime remains gang related etc.
This in no way tries to poo poo this serious matter, and I've a son who I'll worry about in a few years time, when he is out.
However, it's always gone on and in the words of Nick Ross, it's very rare and do sleep  tonight.
Have a nice weekend people

I had to have a word with my lad last week. He came back fom school all dissapointed that an older lad he had arranged to meet up with for scrap didn't turn up! All i could think about was the lad who got stabbed to death last year in the same spot where he had gone and my mate who once got ambushed after arranging to collect a stolen mobile phone. 
I'm not sure if knife crime really is any worse than when we were younger or is it just over reported? Are there more recorded crimes involving knives than say 30 years ago when i was younger?

Every statistic says it is. Odd post.

link to said comparrison stats? I'm not disputing it as i feel it may well be but i haven't seen the proof. We also regularly hear how much more violent society is nowadays but stats prove it be nonsense.

Link1

Link2

The punishment for being in possession of a gun is harsher than being in possession of a knife. It needs to be the same at the higher level. They both kill people. There is no need to carry either.

Thanks for those links, It seems that rise is also accentuated by the dip that immediately preceded the rise.
The sad thing is also how this affects kids mentally. I’ve just been told by my wife that my son is asking if he can have a stab proof vest, he is 12 and just started seniors ffs.

[Solihull Throstle]

A knife is only a deterrent if you use it so if you carry one you mean to stab someone.  I don't get how you come to the conclusion that a nation that treats this crime seriously is comparable to Saudi.

The point was blaming liberals (all the rage at the moment) isn’t really the answer to knife crime. You do have to understand and prevent the causes of it. Stiffer sentences on there own won’t solve the problem. If you want to stop something you have to understand why it is happening.

If you increase sentences then people will stop carrying knives and knife crime will drop, you do not need to understand why they carry them at all.

Sorry that’s bollocks. There aren’t exactly a lot of convictions for all these stabbings. People won’t give evidence/report things due to the gang culture that surrounds them. Understanding the issue is the only way to begin to fix it.

Now you are talking bollocks. Under the Singaporean system you don't need any evidence other than possession. Carry the knife do the time for the crime you intended, that is how it works and they have almost no crime. You may not like it and having lived there it is not a system that everyone will like but it works very well for them.

Hi Morley. When were you there and for how long? I lived there from 2006 until 2015. Interesting place!

[YamYam]

We need both short term tactics of greater checks and tougher sentencing alongside looking to tackle the root cause for prevention long term.

Problem is we can't get started with a diminished police force and the prisons overloaded making continued gang activity and drugs rife inside.

[fuzzbox]

The point was blaming liberals (all the rage at the moment) isn’t really the answer to knife crime. You do have to understand and prevent the causes of it. Stiffer sentences on there own won’t solve the problem. If you want to stop something you have to understand why it is happening.

If you increase sentences then people will stop carrying knives and knife crime will drop, you do not need to understand why they carry them at all.

Sorry that’s bollocks. There aren’t exactly a lot of convictions for all these stabbings. People won’t give evidence/report things due to the gang culture that surrounds them. Understanding the issue is the only way to begin to fix it.

Now you are talking bollocks. Under the Singaporean system you don't need any evidence other than possession. Carry the knife do the time for the crime you intended, that is how it works and they have almost no crime. You may not like it and having lived there it is not a system that everyone will like but it works very well for them.

Hi Morley. When were you there and for how long? I lived there from 2006 until 2015. Interesting place!

I lived in Singapore as well. To link a lack of knife crime with its punishment system misses out so many other factors.

For instance...

They are better off than we are. Crime and poverty statistically go hand in hand
wealth is more evenly duistributed - see above.
It's a smaller country - you can't hide your criminal enterprise
they spend more per capita on their police force
They have a far lower 'problem' with all drugs - including alcohol. Abuse and disorderly behaviour is punished severely
 Petty crimes is not tolerated and some would argue punished disproportionately. For example,  picking/arranging fights with other kids and receiving stolen goods is not tolerated.

There are MASSIVE cultural differences.
It makes for a very safe, ordered place, but also quite pedestrian. Which probably explains why they make so much money out of banking...

There's also less crime in Norway, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein and switzerland.

Yet, they all have more liberal laws than us.

In fact, the only the thing these countries have in common with Singapore is that they have a higher average income than us and wealth is more evenly distributed.

[Derek Hardballs]

If you increase sentences then people will stop carrying knives and knife crime will drop, you do not need to understand why they carry them at all.

Sorry that’s bollocks. There aren’t exactly a lot of convictions for all these stabbings. People won’t give evidence/report things due to the gang culture that surrounds them. Understanding the issue is the only way to begin to fix it.

Now you are talking bollocks. Under the Singaporean system you don't need any evidence other than possession. Carry the knife do the time for the crime you intended, that is how it works and they have almost no crime. You may not like it and having lived there it is not a system that everyone will like but it works very well for them.

Hi Morley. When were you there and for how long? I lived there from 2006 until 2015. Interesting place!

I lived in Singapore as well. To link a lack of knife crime with its punishment system misses out so many other factors.

For instance...

They are better off than we are. Crime and poverty statistically go hand in hand
wealth is more evenly duistributed - see above.
It's a smaller country - you can't hide your criminal enterprise
they spend more per capita on their police force
They have a far lower 'problem' with all drugs - including alcohol. Abuse and disorderly behaviour is punished severely
 Petty crimes is not tolerated and some would argue punished disproportionately. For example,  picking/arranging fights with other kids and receiving stolen goods is not tolerated.

There are MASSIVE cultural differences.
It makes for a very safe, ordered place, but also quite pedestrian. Which probably explains why they make so much money out of banking...

There's also less  crime in Norway, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein and switzerland.

Yet, they all have more liberal laws than us.

In fact, the only the thing these countries have in common with Singapore is that they have a higher average income than us and wealth is more evenly distributed.

Now come on this country can’t be seen to distribute wealth more evenly.

[The liquidator]

Look after no1 that is the name of the game

[fuzzbox]

Look after no1 that  is the name of the game

...and yet history demonstrates that you need co-operation to achieve anything. It's why we live in a society in the first place. 

The people who only look after No. 1, quickly get found out and that co-operation needed to make the step up gets harder and harder. Pretty soon they're blaming everybody else for their lack of success. As a primary motive, it lacks subtlety and is short-termism.

But I suppose this is where it gets subjective. I prefer to live in an area where there is minimal crime.  To do that, I know that according to all the research, there has to be a fairer distribution of wealth.  

I don't want to have to worry about car-jackings, burglaries, stabbings and mindless violence from people that have got nothing else in their lives to aspire to but a redundant, self-defeating and ultimately sad display of machismo.

So, I suppose, in a way, that is looking after No. 1.