Who would you vote for? Genuine question

[Borin' Baggie]

Flag shaggers unite against Reform eh?

Flag shaggers are too busy threatening a Lib Dem councillor in Moseley for saying they're blocking the road to hang up flags in and area they're not from

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

That embarrassment from Raise The Colours needs a good trim and to find out how much his mate Danny Thommo ran off with

[Baggiejacko]

They are uncouth bastards to a man. Get those flaming torches out and hunt them down

[Protheroe]

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Lib Dem. Only party that have a chance of beating the Tories and the traitor party in my constituency.

I will vote for whoever is most likely to keep Reform out of power. It really is as simple as that,

You’re a bright button clearly and a bit more of a powerful political figure on this board. 
Could you articulate to Jacko why you’d do this?

It's very simple. Unlike most people on here I've actually heard Nigel Farage speak a couple of times. I took my late father to see him more out of morbid curiosity rather than fascination - so let's be clear about that. After all he is, and there is no doubt about it, the singular most influential politician of the last 15 years.

When Farage speaks, he usually opens with evocations of liberty, freedom, the spirit of entrepreneurship, self reliance and self determination. All this is very good, and for someone like me it's very hard to disagree on the face of it. 

The red meat of his speeches are all about immigration. He knows his audience, he knows what they want - and it is very clear that there is an exceptionally deep vein of racism running through Reforms core support. It has always been there. When I was running Vote Leave in Bromsgrove UKIP asked me and my colleagues to go for a pint to see if we could work together with the LeaveEU campaign. It only took me half a pint to tell them that wasn't happening, largely because LeaveEU was a front for anti-immigrant rhetoric (I am very pro controlled immigration)  and beyond that out and out racism. It was just assumed by them that the tropes they used would be acceptable to me. They weren't and they're not.  

Moreover, Reform has managed to recruit the very worst of the Conservative Party - including the architects of the most illiberal policies of my lifetime. Lockdowns, proposals for vaccine passports and the kind of social and thought control I'd only ever consider dystopian. A party with the likes of Braverman and Zahawi as members cannot be considered liberal, ever. A party that is happy to attract the bitter political chameleon Robert Jenrick ought to be roundly condemned - if only for his appalling attack on one of the MOST integrated communities in Birmingham.

Reform as a Party is an assortment of the deluded, demented and downright dangerous. Most of its supporters in my experience of campaigning have very little interest in politics, far less in fundamental freedoms.

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

A decent read that. Agree with a lot of it. I find it really hard to fathom how whatever your own convictions for VL were you didnt reach the conclusion that those you were (in your mind inadvertently) handing an outcome to that would set off the chain of events we all see play out before us now was clearly a huge red blaring siren to reconsider what “least worse” might be.

Hindsight huh.

[richbaggie]

I'm politically homeless and will vote tactically to support keeping Reform from power which would bring absolute chaos and division of which will take decades to repair.

[baggy1]

Good post Proth.

When you get a large number of voters that are determined to support or believe proven liars with no real solutions there are two elements at play. One is as you highlight an element that is simply racism, it will be denied by the usual suspects but it is there undoubtedly.

The second, and this leads into the 1st, is social media. This is the 1st real generation of politicians that have had to deal with social media and the magnification of lies and half truths that get pumped out there with far more effect than manifestos, door knocking or party political broadcasts ever could. Add to that the very recent advent of AI and you have a large enough element of the vote either believing nonsense or having their views, in many cases racist views, validated.

I'm afraid that the writing is on the wall and despite the calamities of the last couple of decades and beyond, we are yet to hit rock bottom. I suspect that will come in a much more serious form than we are seeing at the moment. In the last few days we have had groups in the midlands feeling confident enough, albeit not confident enough to show their faces in many cases, to give Nazi salutes in public. This is not a good time, and I know i joke about this with you but leaving the country is a reasonable response for people that can. Unfortunately by doing that it reduces the number of reasonable people that will debate and recognise the lies.

[richbaggie]

Good post Proth.

When you get a large number of voters that are determined to support or believe proven liars with no real solutions there are two elements at play. One is as you highlight an element that is simply racism, it will be denied by the usual suspects but it is there undoubtedly.

The second, and this leads into the 1st, is social media. This is the 1st real generation of politicians that have had to deal with social media and the magnification of lies and half truths that get pumped out there with far more effect than manifestos, door knocking or party political broadcasts ever could. Add to that the very recent advent of AI and you have a large enough element of the vote either believing nonsense or having their views, in many cases racist views, validated.

I'm afraid that the writing is on the wall and despite the calamities of the last couple of decades and beyond, we are yet to hit rock bottom. I suspect that will come in a much more serious form than we are seeing at the moment. In the last few days we have had groups in the midlands feeling confident enough, albeit not confident enough to show their faces in many cases, to give Nazi salutes in public. This is not a good time, and I know i joke about this with you but leaving the country is a reasonable response for people that can. Unfortunately by doing that it reduces the number of reasonable people that will debate and recognise the lies.

Good posts from you and Proth.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s, seeing various far right groups like NF, BNP get almost universally vilified for their abhorrent views. Yet, I see and hear more and more of these views being shared by people, not just by those setting out to divide like Farage and Robinson,  but people I know, even family members. People are becoming more and more emboldened to say things that NF were shunned for.

I find it incredibly sad and I am scared for my grandkids because the division is only going to get worse and increasingly violent.

[baggy1]

Here is a good example of how the lies can become reality for some and how racism is being used and normalised.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DUcwBj_in...em5rdHl4NQ==

[Spandaubaggie]

Farage led Brexit, which to all but the most stubborn and deluded is clearly the most stupid decision for this country in decades.
Reform is a hot potch of hate fuelled morons and far right Tories(the same Tories that had over a decade ruining the country and getting cast into the wilderness. To vote for them as a change is utterly bonkers. I'm also deeply suspicious of their backers.
As for the mess, if you want one catch all blame it's the banks. I've read a fair bit on this and clearing up the crash and saving the banking system in 2008 has fallen on all us. It's seen a generation of inflation eating at our incomes and austerity ruining the infrastructure.
Add the cost of Covid, the mess of Brexit, and dealing with a lunatic in America it's made running the country extremely difficult.
I hope Labour can turn it around in the next couple of years as they are the most stable solution to the mess we find ourselves in.