Covid Vaccination ID

[backsidebaggie]

Of course you are being paranoid, you think that the government are trying to introduce a digital id when they are trying to introduce an easy way for people to prove they have been vaccinated so that they don't then have to get tested to get into concerts, festivals etc.

These systems are already in place, i have an NHS id that shows my history of vaccinations, if I want to go back to the far east I would need to be vaccinated for many other diseases.

We can't stay in lockdown forever and unfortunately if hospitalisations start to rise it will be too late to do anything other than lockdown. Until people realise that the virus transmits to wherever it can get a foothold (and it will get a better foothold in someone that isn't vaccinated) then we won't reduce it back to background noise.

There were so many people claiming that we wouldn't have a wave in the winter last August and September, and we had reached herd immunity only for them to disappear or change their tune by deleting their social media history when it happened as was predicted. You can make as many predictions as you like, but there is one basic fact, if hospitalisations start to go up because spread is occurring then it is already too late and will take weeks beyond that point to control it. The best way of controlling it before then is to make sure that we have as much protection against transmission as possible. One of those tools is vaccination and if people don't take up the option in enough numbers don't be surprised if we end up in another lockdown.

Your trust in the government is simply amazing Baggy1! I think its literally an incredibly easy way of bringing in a digital ID! Here's an equally "paranoid" Guardian writer who believes the same:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...-passports

We do not have a system in place that coerces people into being vaccinated and allows for the restriction of liberties for those who don't want the vaccine or can't have it. Many people pointed that out this morning on this thread. Its totally different. And I must say again, Johnson has literally moved the goalposts on this a number of times. From "not needing it to go to the pub, only foreign travel", to "landlords might ask for it", and now Gove is looking at mandating it, if the press are to be believed. So you go ahead and trust them, I think you're mad but each to their own. They keep moving the goalposts.

Your last paragraph highlights my point perfectly - the next lockdown will be blamed on those who don't want the vaccine. This is going to get poisonous later in the year IMO.

I won't be surprised at all by the way, I'm literally expecting it, as I predicted earlier! In fact I said the same a few weeks ago, along with Nick, and we were told the difference now is the huge vaccination programme so there shouldn't be another lockdown. We were called doom mongerers.

Now we require a certain level of uptake (despite there being huge uptake in the over 50s, which account for 99% of deaths!). Goalposts have also moved on vaccinating kids. That wasn't going to be required. Now it is.

But "the science" will say that's it, the goalposts will have moved, and last months "science" will be conveniently forgotten. It keeps happening and will continue to.

[baggiebuckster]

And today another story about probably needing vaccine passports to attend festivals in August. How is this going to work? Many festival going people will be relatively young so will have only received 1 dose in July. So therefore NOT fully vaccinated. It's a minefield.

And if festivals then will the same apply to the Albion assuming crowds can return in August?

[baggy1]

If you read the actual background it is for vaccine passports or recent test results, but don't let that get in the way of a quick bit of paranoia

[baggiebuckster]

If you read the actual background it is for vaccine passports or recent test results, but don't let that get in the way of a quick bit of paranoia

What is classed as a recent test result? They are only any use as a snapshot of a point in time. 

So that's two of us on here requiring counseling for our paranoia then- must be an emerging trend.

[backsidebaggie]

If you read the actual background it is for vaccine passports or recent test results, but don't let that get in the way of a quick bit of paranoia

What is classed as a recent test result? They are only any use as a snapshot of a point in time. 

So that's two of us on here requiring counseling for our paranoia then- must be an emerging trend.

Exactly! And if anyone thinks it will stay that way with the option of a test result, they're mad! Just like it didn't stay with "won't need domestic passports for the pub, only foreign travel". That soon changed!

The goalposts keep moving Baggy1, and I'm astounded you can't see it.

And I was just being a doom-mongerer when I said lockdowns will return a few weeks ago. Now it'll happen if enough don't get the vaccine. And while we're at it, they've changed their mind on kids too!

But we're just being paranoid, honest!

I'm glad some of us can see where this is heading. And it ain't pretty.

[baggy1]

So lets get this straight, we all agree that the virus transmits more in people that aren't vaccinated, I presume that is understood I suppose. And we also agree that people shouldn't have to get vaccinated if they don't want to. But you feel that if people don't get vaccinated then they should be allowed to continue to spread the virus, and your basis for that is that because the vulnerable are protected then it won't impact us like before.

We also agree that none of us want to get back into a lockdown, the big difference here is that you are willing to take more of a gamble with the lockdown scenario than I am based on your belief that the government are running a sinister covert programme to get all of our details in digital id form. These details that they already have btw and are already available if needed.

[backsidebaggie]

So lets get this straight, we all agree that the virus transmits more in people that aren't vaccinated, I presume that is understood I suppose. And we also agree that people shouldn't have to get vaccinated if they don't want to. But you feel that if people don't get vaccinated then they should be allowed to continue to spread the virus, and your basis for that is that because the vulnerable are protected then it won't impact us like before.

We also agree that none of us want to get back into a lockdown, the big difference here is that you are willing to take more of a gamble with the lockdown scenario than I am based on your belief that the government are running a sinister covert programme to get all of our details in digital id form. These details that they already have btw and are already available if needed.

Yes, like other infectious disease, forever. I've got elderly relatives who are very frail and would die if they had influenza but they've never expected anyone else to get vaccinated on their behalf, they take their own vaccine as their own precaution (and before you say its not flu, I know that, but that exact principle stands despite covid being worse than flu). Yes, I believe if someone is vaccinated and still worried about catching covid from someone who isn't vaccinated, then they are the paranoid ones! Absolutely bat shit mental paranoid tbh.

And yes my basis is that with the 98-99% portion of those who are hospitalised would have been vaccinated, how on earth can that therefore not be enough to keep the NHS protected? 

"Sinister covert programme" sounds very extreme, but I simply agree with that Guardian article above - that they can use this crisis to push through something they wish, and I am totally against digital ID's. The fact is the goalposts keep moving, as I have described above. How come we have gone from "only foreign travel", to "landlords could request it", then one stage further in today's press?

And we don't even know how long the vaccines work for? If its valid for 6 months, someone who is 1 day prior to it "expiring" may well not be much different to someone who is not vaccinated. The idea is a human rights minefield for a start, and is not even supported by "the science". What an irony.

Plus, what are you actually saying? What about supermarkets? Those who don't want to be vaccinated can't go and get food? What's the difference between a pub and a shop? I'll turn it round to you, if, say, a proportion of people turn down the vaccine, what would you suggest? Walk round with a badge on so they can be avoided? I'm dying to hear your ideas... I can't actually believe I'm having this conversation. I'm stunned.

[baggy1]

So lets get this straight, we all agree that the virus transmits more in people that aren't vaccinated, I presume that is understood I suppose. And we also agree that people shouldn't have to get vaccinated if they don't want to. But you feel that if people don't get vaccinated then they should be allowed to continue to spread the virus, and your basis for that is that because the vulnerable are protected then it won't impact us like before.

We also agree that none of us want to get back into a lockdown, the big difference here is that you are willing to take more of a gamble with the lockdown scenario than I am based on your belief that the government are running a sinister covert programme to get all of our details in digital id form. These details that they already have btw and are already available if needed.

Yes, like other infectious disease, forever. I've got elderly relatives who are very frail and would die if they had influenza but they've never expected anyone else to get vaccinated on their behalf, they take their own vaccine as their own precaution (and before you say its not flu, I know that, but that exact principle stands despite covid being worse than flu). Yes, I believe if someone is vaccinated and still worried about catching covid from someone who isn't vaccinated, then they are the paranoid ones! Absolutely bat shit mental paranoid tbh.

And yes my basis is that with the 98-99% portion of those who are hospitalised would have been vaccinated, how on earth can that therefore not be enough to keep the NHS protected? 

"Sinister covert programme" sounds very extreme, but I simply agree with that Guardian article above - that they can use this crisis to push through something they wish, and I am totally against digital ID's. The fact is the goalposts keep moving, as I have described above. How come we have gone from "only foreign travel", to "landlords could request it", then one stage further in today's press?

And we don't even know how long the vaccines work for? If its valid for 6 months, someone who is 1 day prior to it "expiring" may well not be much different to someone who is not vaccinated. The idea is a human rights minefield for a start, and is not even supported by "the science". What an irony.

Plus, what are you actually saying? What about supermarkets? Those who don't want to be vaccinated can't go and get food? What's the difference between a pub and a shop? I'll turn it round to you, if, say, a proportion of people turn down the vaccine, what would you suggest? Walk round with a badge on so they can be avoided? I'm dying to hear your ideas... I can't actually believe I'm having this conversation. I'm stunned.

Sinister is your word, you've used it numerous times along with goalposts keep moving - we get it! Covert means not openly which again is what you have said. A programme is the way the government will deliver.

I'm saying this - short term, to get the herd immunity up to a level that it currently isn't we need to get as many people vaccinated as possible. If people don't want to get vaccinated for any other reason than they have a medical issue why they can't then we are opening the door to more cases, more hospitalisations and more deaths. I hope you are right that we don't need it because the vulnerable being vaccinated will be enough, but that is a gamble that you are willing to take and I don't think is worth it. It's easy to be 20:20 in hindsight, we don't want to be in a position in December saying "if only we'd have got everyone vaccinated".

I personally think it's everyones responsibility to get this jab.

[backsidebaggie]

So lets get this straight, we all agree that the virus transmits more in people that aren't vaccinated, I presume that is understood I suppose. And we also agree that people shouldn't have to get vaccinated if they don't want to. But you feel that if people don't get vaccinated then they should be allowed to continue to spread the virus, and your basis for that is that because the vulnerable are protected then it won't impact us like before.

We also agree that none of us want to get back into a lockdown, the big difference here is that you are willing to take more of a gamble with the lockdown scenario than I am based on your belief that the government are running a sinister covert programme to get all of our details in digital id form. These details that they already have btw and are already available if needed.

Yes, like other infectious disease, forever. I've got elderly relatives who are very frail and would die if they had influenza but they've never expected anyone else to get vaccinated on their behalf, they take their own vaccine as their own precaution (and before you say its not flu, I know that, but that exact principle stands despite covid being worse than flu). Yes, I believe if someone is vaccinated and still worried about catching covid from someone who isn't vaccinated, then they are the paranoid ones! Absolutely bat shit mental paranoid tbh.

And yes my basis is that with the 98-99% portion of those who are hospitalised would have been vaccinated, how on earth can that therefore not be enough to keep the NHS protected? 

"Sinister covert programme" sounds very extreme, but I simply agree with that Guardian article above - that they can use this crisis to push through something they wish, and I am totally against digital ID's. The fact is the goalposts keep moving, as I have described above. How come we have gone from "only foreign travel", to "landlords could request it", then one stage further in today's press?

And we don't even know how long the vaccines work for? If its valid for 6 months, someone who is 1 day prior to it "expiring" may well not be much different to someone who is not vaccinated. The idea is a human rights minefield for a start, and is not even supported by "the science". What an irony.

Plus, what are you actually saying? What about supermarkets? Those who don't want to be vaccinated can't go and get food? What's the difference between a pub and a shop? I'll turn it round to you, if, say, a proportion of people turn down the vaccine, what would you suggest? Walk round with a badge on so they can be avoided? I'm dying to hear your ideas... I can't actually believe I'm having this conversation. I'm stunned.

Sinister is your word, you've used it numerous times along with goalposts keep moving - we get it! Covert means not openly which again is what you have said. A programme is the way the government will deliver.

I'm saying this - short term, to get the herd immunity up to a level that it currently isn't we need to get as many people vaccinated as possible. If people don't want to get vaccinated for any other reason than they have a medical issue why they can't then we are opening the door to more cases, more hospitalisations and more deaths. I hope you are right that we don't need it because the vulnerable being vaccinated will be enough, but that is a gamble that you are willing to take and I don't think is worth it. It's easy to be 20:20 in hindsight, we don't want to be in a position in December saying "if only we'd have got everyone vaccinated".

I personally think it's everyones responsibility to get this jab.

And if say, 15% of the public don't want it, and don't agree its their responsibility, their opinion is as good as anyone's. What's your plan?

I don't get the "if only we'd got everyone vaccinated". Again, what do you suggest? Forcing? Coercion? Restricting from going places? Practical solutions?

[baggy1]

No, lockdown, but don't whinge about it if we end up there because some people decided for no reason other than they didn't fancy it to not get vaccinated.