Covid Vaccination ID

[backsidebaggie]

You're probably right and of course flu does kill.  But it's not COVID.  I'd like to say that principles matter but if someone does knowingly go to the theatre with the illness and causes an outbreak, what then?  Will they be held accountable or will it be, well this is no different to flu? I wonder.  Seriously I wonder.

If the vaccines are effective they shouldn’t cause an outbreak. Perhaps the odd case. That’s where I come back to the principle being the same as flu. I know covid is way worse. But I would say there are lots of old people who flu would probably kill (I have at least one relative like that now) and she would not expect or ever think the population should vaccinate to protect her. She’s over 90 bless her and I guess they are made of tough stuff! Lol.

I’ve had every vaccine going, but I totally get why young people may not want this. Especially pregnant women. Can we ban them from theatres and restaurants? It just gets crazy IMO. 

I don’t believe people should be forced to vaccinate to attend things. I understand some folk do. I think it’s going to get poisonous at times this year with these arguments!

And fair play to you mate, we’ve disagreed on this without any nonsense anti vaxer name calling or covid denial or digs about flu being the same. You understood my comparison with flu without making out I was saying they’re the same thing, which a lot of people tend to twist. Respect to you for that!

We’ll have to see how it all works out with hospitality in general, it’s a minefield!

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You see when everyone starts banging on about their civil liberties they never mention their civil responsibilities? Waah I won' to do that it's not fair I wanna do what I want, when I want, all the time, I'm not doing it it's not fair... slam door!

I haven't seen my granddad in person in fucking ages, nor any of my friends since March. I have been doing my duty during this pandemic, I will continue to do so and I will get a vaccine when it is eventually offered to me. I just don't think it's fair to treat people as second class citizens and deny them from doing things that other people can based on their age, health or if they have medical issues that prevent them from getting vaccinated.

 No one has said that there won’t be understandable exceptions and I’m not sure it’s something that will work in practice. My main gripe is with people in health and care who refuse the vaccine who are perfectly well and are looking after potentially people who aren’t and who can’t get vaccinated.

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You see when everyone starts banging on about their civil liberties they never mention their civil responsibilities? Waah I won' to do that it's not fair I wanna do what I want, when I want, all the time, I'm not doing it it's not fair... slam door!

Bad attitude this. Not everything is black and white. People's mental health matters too. I haven't been able to see my father who has a serious illness and is really struggling with the loneliness aspect since the passing of my mother, my partner hasn't been able to fly back to Italy to see her family either whereas if we had to go abroad to finalise a contract renewal it would be completely allowed.

You can slam the door all you want, but it's overly-simplistic to assume that the only reason for wanting an end to lockdown earlier or not being forced to have vaccine passports is just because people "want to do what they want". Of course those people exist also.

Apologies Slice, my point wasn’t about lockdown it was about vaccination and the refusal of some to have it and the wider implications potentially to society if the vaccine is proven to reduce infection rates amongst the population. Lockdown has prevented many deaths but no one wants it to last any longer than it has to and perhaps if we had been quicker and locked down harder at the beginning we would be living a normalish life now. A startling stat I’ve just seen on the BBC Covid update is 48% of those under the age of 42 end up in hospital with the virus, the vaccine should be seen as a sensible and responsible thing to have just like those we have as children. Whether an ID is the answer is one for the moral maze but 90% of take up according to Whitty so far.

Are you sure about that? You are suggesting that just under 1 in 2 people are being admitted to hospital?

Major misread of one of the graphs, absolute nonsense.

[baggiebuckster]

You see when everyone starts banging on about their civil liberties they never mention their civil responsibilities? Waah I won' to do that it's not fair I wanna do what I want, when I want, all the time, I'm not doing it it's not fair... slam door!

I haven't seen my granddad in person in fucking ages, nor any of my friends since March. I have been doing my duty during this pandemic, I will continue to do so and I will get a vaccine when it is eventually offered to me. I just don't think it's fair to treat people as second class citizens and deny them from doing things that other people can based on their age, health or if they have medical issues that prevent them from getting vaccinated.

 No one has said that there won’t be understandable exceptions and I’m not sure it’s something that will work in practice. My main gripe is with people in health and care who refuse the vaccine who are perfectly well and are looking after potentially people who aren’t and who can’t get vaccinated.

---

You see when everyone starts banging on about their civil liberties they never mention their civil responsibilities? Waah I won' to do that it's not fair I wanna do what I want, when I want, all the time, I'm not doing it it's not fair... slam door!

Bad attitude this. Not everything is black and white. People's mental health matters too. I haven't been able to see my father who has a serious illness and is really struggling with the loneliness aspect since the passing of my mother, my partner hasn't been able to fly back to Italy to see her family either whereas if we had to go abroad to finalise a contract renewal it would be completely allowed.

You can slam the door all you want, but it's overly-simplistic to assume that the only reason for wanting an end to lockdown earlier or not being forced to have vaccine passports is just because people "want to do what they want". Of course those people exist also.

Apologies Slice, my point wasn’t about lockdown it was about vaccination and the refusal of some to have it and the wider implications potentially to society if the vaccine is proven to reduce infection rates amongst the population. Lockdown has prevented many deaths but no one wants it to last any longer than it has to and perhaps if we had been quicker and locked down harder at the beginning we would be living a normalish life now. A startling stat I’ve just seen on the BBC Covid update is 48% of those under the age of 42 end up in hospital with the virus, the vaccine should be seen as a sensible and responsible thing to have just like those we have as children. Whether an ID is the answer is one for the moral maze but 90% of take up according to Whitty so far.

Are you sure about that? You are suggesting that just under 1 in 2 people are being admitted to hospital?

[Derek Hardballs]

You see when everyone starts banging on about their civil liberties they never mention their civil responsibilities? Waah I won' to do that it's not fair I wanna do what I want, when I want, all the time, I'm not doing it it's not fair... slam door!

I haven't seen my granddad in person in fucking ages, nor any of my friends since March. I have been doing my duty during this pandemic, I will continue to do so and I will get a vaccine when it is eventually offered to me. I just don't think it's fair to treat people as second class citizens and deny them from doing things that other people can based on their age, health or if they have medical issues that prevent them from getting vaccinated.

 No one has said that there won’t be understandable exceptions and I’m not sure it’s something that will work in practice. My main gripe is with people in health and care who refuse the vaccine who are perfectly well and are looking after potentially people who aren’t and who can’t get vaccinated.

---

You see when everyone starts banging on about their civil liberties they never mention their civil responsibilities? Waah I won' to do that it's not fair I wanna do what I want, when I want, all the time, I'm not doing it it's not fair... slam door!

Bad attitude this. Not everything is black and white. People's mental health matters too. I haven't been able to see my father who has a serious illness and is really struggling with the loneliness aspect since the passing of my mother, my partner hasn't been able to fly back to Italy to see her family either whereas if we had to go abroad to finalise a contract renewal it would be completely allowed.

You can slam the door all you want, but it's overly-simplistic to assume that the only reason for wanting an end to lockdown earlier or not being forced to have vaccine passports is just because people "want to do what they want". Of course those people exist also.

Apologies Slice, my point wasn’t about lockdown it was about vaccination and the refusal of some to have it and the wider implications potentially to society if the vaccine is proven to reduce infection rates amongst the population. Lockdown has prevented many deaths but no one wants it to last any longer than it has to and perhaps if we had been quicker and locked down harder at the beginning we would be living a normalish life now. A startling stat I’ve just seen on the BBC Covid update is 48% of those under the age of 42 end up in hospital with the virus, the vaccine should be seen as a sensible and responsible thing to have just like those we have as children. Whether an ID is the answer is one for the moral maze but 90% of take up according to Whitty so far.

Are you sure about that? You are suggesting that just under 1 in 2 people are being admitted to hospital?

I’m not at all certain it seemed very high. The slides went past too fast to double check.

[baggy1]

Sorry if I've misread what you are saying lads but what the stats were saying is that of the people currently being admitted to hospital about 40 odd % are under 65. It is mainly because of the drop in number of over 65s being admitted after vaccination rather than an increase in under 65s being admitted. The under 65 numbers are possibly about the same but now making up a greater %. The problem with the graph was the BBC banner across the bottom blocked the data that had been used so I couldn't see numbers.

[Brentbaggie]

That is indeed what the stats are saying - that of those now admitted to hospital 48% are under 65 - which seems to suggest the vaccines are having an effect on ameliorating the worst excesses of the disease for those that have had the jab.

Oh and thank you Backside for your kind words. I try not to get too vitriolic with anybody on here, not least as we all share one great (I can dream) thing in common. The pandemic is a near unique experience, certainly in most of our lives, and I fail to see how anyone can say anything about what may or may not happen with total certainty. One can express one's beliefs and hopes but I don't think anyone on here is an epidemiologist or virus research scientist so it pays to be ever so 'umble, Mr Copperfield.

[Borin' Baggie]

Thought I'd give this a bump given recent developments making it ever more likely...

[baggy1]

One of the questions I have is, seeing as we have now given the 1st dose to nearly 30M people and both doses to 2M, why are there some people that are still questioning the safety of the vaccine. At what point will they accept it is safe? 

And they do have the right to know what is going into their bodies I agree, but on that same point businesses have the right to prevent people from entering into their premises if they feel they pose a risk to the safety of other customers and / or their ability to continue operating. It can't go both ways.

[strawman]

I would imagine that the majority of people who mainly inhabit pubs and clubs are under 50's.

If a vaccine certificate is required then the pubs are going to be pretty quiet for a while.

And are we allowed to ask to see the certificates of the staff to ensure we are safe from them ?

Gonna get pretty messy 

[Sliced]

I would imagine that the majority of people who mainly inhabit pubs and clubs are under 50's.

If a vaccine certificate is required then the pubs are going to be pretty quiet for a while.

And are we allowed to ask to see the certificates of the staff to ensure we are safe from them ?

Gonna get pretty messy 

It's a ridiculous idea.

If it's left to the discretion of the landlord then a) They'll be so desperate for business that pretty much all of the pubs will choose not to ask anyway and b) This isn't even news as pubs can refuse entry or service to people at their discretion already.

[baggy1]

The take up so far is above 50% of the adult population, when the under 50s come online I would put a pessimistic estimate of 25% uptake then I don't think will so much of an issue for landlords to choose not to as most will be allowed with over 75% of the adult population vaccinated.