INSULATE BRITAIN MORRONS

[Borin' Baggie]

Anyone know the cost of running ground source heat pumps compared to gas boilers for heating a home? Is it similar?

Heat pumps only heat water to a certain temp 50 degrees I believe? And need an electric/gas boiler to heat the rest.

They work well in summer but worse in winter.

Thats what I am told.

A modern ground source heat pump can heat water to close to 70C. You do not need a boiler in conjunction.

The issue is that they work best with houses that are set up to use them, underfloor heating and steady state circulation for example. Plus they're expensive to install due to the boring for the well. 

They are always more efficient than an electric boiler. They're more efficient than a gas boiler in terms of mechanics but not always in terms of cost if you've got cheap gas.

The problem is that it's not worth retrofitting them for the most part, that's why I specified new builds. There is zero excuse for a new housing development to not install them.

[Morley]

According to that sort of fatalistic reasoning, I'm not sure any other planet deserves our presence. Diverting all the world's resources from saving the planet we currently inhabit into the vague hope of transporting us elsewhere in the universe also displays a very strange kind of logic - on the same sort of level as people gluing themselves to roads, really.

Sorry for the exaggerated reasoning, however at some point in the future our star the Sun will become a Red Giant and will engulf all of the inner planets - no amount of superglue to tarmac will stop that happening.

In the short term we can delay the inevitable, and cut back on the problems we are causing, but they should be targeting the major industrial nations who are the main cause of the current problem, new houses in this country are pretty well insulated these days.

New houses in this country are not that well insulated and they are still being fitted with boilers instead of ground source heat pumps for some bizarre reason. In my experience they're also built like shit if they're part of a housing development.

Because ground source heat pumps are shit.  We had them at work in a new build after being given all the 'they'll save you money and the planet', first 3 months bill in the new building was 10k higher than the same sized old building.

[Borin' Baggie]

According to that sort of fatalistic reasoning, I'm not sure any other planet deserves our presence. Diverting all the world's resources from saving the planet we currently inhabit into the vague hope of transporting us elsewhere in the universe also displays a very strange kind of logic - on the same sort of level as people gluing themselves to roads, really.

Sorry for the exaggerated reasoning, however at some point in the future our star the Sun will become a Red Giant and will engulf all of the inner planets - no amount of superglue to tarmac will stop that happening.

In the short term we can delay the inevitable, and cut back on the problems we are causing, but they should be targeting the major industrial nations who are the main cause of the current problem, new houses in this country are pretty well insulated these days.

New houses in this country are not that well insulated and they are still being fitted with boilers instead of ground source heat pumps for some bizarre reason. In my experience they're also built like shit if they're part of a housing development.

Because ground source heat pumps are shit.  We had them at work in a new build after being given all the 'they'll save you money and the planet', first 3 months bill in the new building was 10k higher than the same sized old building.

They're not shit, maybe you didn't properly insulate the building or didn't adjust behaviour to account for the new system.

Unless you're arguing that the laws of thermodynamics magically didn't apply to your building.

[coxy134]

Anyone know the cost of running ground source heat pumps compared to gas boilers for heating a home? Is it similar?

Heat pumps only heat water to a certain temp 50 degrees I believe? And need an electric/gas boiler to heat the rest.

They work well in summer but worse in winter.

Thats what I am told.

A modern ground source heat pump can heat water to close to 70C. You do not need a boiler in conjunction.

The issue is that they work best with houses that are set up to use them, underfloor heating and steady state circulation for example. Plus they're expensive to install due to the boring for the well. 

They are always more efficient than an electric boiler. They're more efficient than a gas boiler in terms of mechanics but not always in terms of cost if you've got cheap gas.

The problem is that it's not worth retrofitting them for the most part, that's why I specified new builds. There is zero excuse for a new housing development to not install them.

I am talking about AIR SOURCE did not notice ground source, sorry

[Morley]

According to that sort of fatalistic reasoning, I'm not sure any other planet deserves our presence. Diverting all the world's resources from saving the planet we currently inhabit into the vague hope of transporting us elsewhere in the universe also displays a very strange kind of logic - on the same sort of level as people gluing themselves to roads, really.

Sorry for the exaggerated reasoning, however at some point in the future our star the Sun will become a Red Giant and will engulf all of the inner planets - no amount of superglue to tarmac will stop that happening.

In the short term we can delay the inevitable, and cut back on the problems we are causing, but they should be targeting the major industrial nations who are the main cause of the current problem, new houses in this country are pretty well insulated these days.

New houses in this country are not that well insulated and they are still being fitted with boilers instead of ground source heat pumps for some bizarre reason. In my experience they're also built like shit if they're part of a housing development.

Because ground source heat pumps are shit.  We had them at work in a new build after being given all the 'they'll save you money and the planet', first 3 months bill in the new building was 10k higher than the same sized old building.

They're not shit, maybe you didn't properly insulate the building or didn't adjust behaviour to account for the new system.

Unless you're arguing that the laws of thermodynamics magically didn't apply to your building.

So we pay experts and it doesn't work and that's our fault? 

"didn't adjust behaviour to account for the new system"

I guess this means, get used to being cold.

[Borin' Baggie]

Sorry for the exaggerated reasoning, however at some point in the future our star the Sun will become a Red Giant and will engulf all of the inner planets - no amount of superglue to tarmac will stop that happening.

In the short term we can delay the inevitable, and cut back on the problems we are causing, but they should be targeting the major industrial nations who are the main cause of the current problem, new houses in this country are pretty well insulated these days.

New houses in this country are not that well insulated and they are still being fitted with boilers instead of ground source heat pumps for some bizarre reason. In my experience they're also built like shit if they're part of a housing development.

Because ground source heat pumps are shit.  We had them at work in a new build after being given all the 'they'll save you money and the planet', first 3 months bill in the new building was 10k higher than the same sized old building.

They're not shit, maybe you didn't properly insulate the building or didn't adjust behaviour to account for the new system.

Unless you're arguing that the laws of thermodynamics magically didn't apply to your building.

So we pay experts and it doesn't work and that's our fault? 

"didn't adjust behaviour to account for the new system"

I guess this means, get used to being cold.

Your argument suggests that either you were at fault, or the laws of thermodynamics are wrong. Which do you think is more likely there?

Behaviour changes is a huge issue, you don't use a heat pump like a gas boiler where you switch it on and off. You set a temperature and leave them on.

[Morley]

New houses in this country are not that well insulated and they are still being fitted with boilers instead of ground source heat pumps for some bizarre reason. In my experience they're also built like shit if they're part of a housing development.

Because ground source heat pumps are shit.  We had them at work in a new build after being given all the 'they'll save you money and the planet', first 3 months bill in the new building was 10k higher than the same sized old building.

They're not shit, maybe you didn't properly insulate the building or didn't adjust behaviour to account for the new system.

Unless you're arguing that the laws of thermodynamics magically didn't apply to your building.

So we pay experts and it doesn't work and that's our fault? 

"didn't adjust behaviour to account for the new system"

I guess this means, get used to being cold.

Your argument suggests that either you were at fault, or the laws of thermodynamics are wrong. Which do you think is more likely there?

Behaviour changes is a huge issue, you don't use a heat pump like a gas boiler where you switch it on and off. You set a temperature and leave them on.

How can we be at fault detailing requirements that the system the experts speced and installed didn't meet?  As for setting it and leaving it, that is exactly what we did because the space had to be at 21C all year round.

[baggiebloke]

Just seen a video on you tube from today of these idiots blocking a road and refusing to move in order to let and Ambulance through on blue light Emergency, WHAT A COMPLETE BUNCH OF BRAINLESS CUNTS. There's footage of locals and drivers dragging these idiots out of the road and pleading with them to move but the twats just go back again, i really am at a loss to understand their mindset.

 Maybe one of our more tech savy ponners can post a link.

They need a good lampin.

We could invite them to block the Wrens Nest Road.

[Borin' Baggie]

Because ground source heat pumps are shit.  We had them at work in a new build after being given all the 'they'll save you money and the planet', first 3 months bill in the new building was 10k higher than the same sized old building.

They're not shit, maybe you didn't properly insulate the building or didn't adjust behaviour to account for the new system.

Unless you're arguing that the laws of thermodynamics magically didn't apply to your building.

So we pay experts and it doesn't work and that's our fault? 

"didn't adjust behaviour to account for the new system"

I guess this means, get used to being cold.

Your argument suggests that either you were at fault, or the laws of thermodynamics are wrong. Which do you think is more likely there?

Behaviour changes is a huge issue, you don't use a heat pump like a gas boiler where you switch it on and off. You set a temperature and leave them on.

How can we be at fault detailing requirements that the system the experts speced and installed didn't meet?  As for setting it and leaving it, that is exactly what we did because the space had to be at 21C all year round.

Because it's either you're at fault with how you're operating and need to adjust behaviour or the laws of physics are wrong. I'm going to assume it was installed correctly otherwise you'd have had that checked, and quite frankly if your building has proved that refrigerant cycles are wrong then you might be in line for a Nobel Prize.

[Morley]

They're not shit, maybe you didn't properly insulate the building or didn't adjust behaviour to account for the new system.

Unless you're arguing that the laws of thermodynamics magically didn't apply to your building.

So we pay experts and it doesn't work and that's our fault? 

"didn't adjust behaviour to account for the new system"

I guess this means, get used to being cold.

Your argument suggests that either you were at fault, or the laws of thermodynamics are wrong. Which do you think is more likely there?

Behaviour changes is a huge issue, you don't use a heat pump like a gas boiler where you switch it on and off. You set a temperature and leave them on.

How can we be at fault detailing requirements that the system the experts speced and installed didn't meet?  As for setting it and leaving it, that is exactly what we did because the space had to be at 21C all year round.

Because it's either you're at fault with how you're operating and need to adjust behaviour or the laws of physics are wrong. I'm going to assume it was installed correctly otherwise you'd have had that checked, and quite frankly if your building has proved that refrigerant cycles are wrong then you might be in line for a Nobel Prize.

The obvious answer is the system was over sold as most of this type of this is.  I guess you have a vested interest in this and that is why the system can't be shit the customer must be.