Covid Vaccination ID

[backsidebaggie]

And some will think if they’re young and healthy and therefore low risk of covid, they’re yet to hear a reasonable explanation to have it! It amazes me that people can’t see this from both sides. You may not think people’s reasons are valid, but they don’t think your opinion that people should have it is reasonable. Opinions and arseholes and all that.

Each to their own. The division in this is going to become toxic, and for me, each persons choice for their body is a fundamental human right.

For those that think being young and healthy will protect them look at what is happening in Brazil. So far it's hit the old and vulnerable generally because they are the weakest, if we open up society without getting it down to minimal levels and protecting against it rising up again then it will hit the young and healthy. At the current rate we'll have 70% of the adult population vaccinated by the end of April so I think your pessimism will be misplaced.

Even Nick had showed that he was wrong in his prediction when he said on 11th March "I'll believe there's a light at the end of the tunnel if in three week's time the hospitalisations and deaths are still on the downward turn." It's now 5 weeks later and they still are.

I don’t know the death rate, or hospitalisation rate, of the under 40s in Brazil. But I know it’s bloody small here for that age group so far, so some are happy to take that chance. It’s a very small chance of serious illness for the young and healthy here so far. The data confirms that. It’s their choice.

I think the vaccination rate will be above 80% overall, but I suspect that won’t be enough (even though the government suggested it would only require over 50s and vulnerable to be vaccinated last year... I guess that changed) and lockdowns will return in the autumn. I’ll be delighted to be wrong, genuinely.

[baggy1]

It was small in Brazil at one stage but their looney tune president decided to go for herd immunity and let it rip. It's ripped and is now down to the under 40s, which shows that it isn't just the over 50s that suffer and the fact we are good old England is going to save us as much as it did last March. If people can't see that it does impact the under 40s (somewhere else in the world admittedly) and still think they are immune then they are daft (politest word available in the circumstances)

[backsidebaggie]

I don’t think they think they’re immune, they just look at percentages. What’s the under 40s hospitalisation and death percentage in Brazil? Is it significantly more than here? I don’t know.

[strawman]

I don’t think they think they’re immune, they just look at percentages. What’s the under 40s hospitalisation and death percentage in Brazil? Is it significantly more than here? I don’t know.

The number of people aged 39 or younger in intensive care units with COVID-19 in March rose sharply to more than 11,000, or 52.2 percent of the total, said the Brazilian ICU Project.

That was up from 14.6 percent of total ICU patients early in the pandemic and around 45 percent from September through February."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-04-b...-icus.html

"Around 2,800 people under the age of 40 have died of the coronavirus in Brazil so far this month, more than double the number reported over the same period in February and almost triple the rate for January, according to government figures."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/20...b683b7b3ee

[backsidebaggie]

I don’t think they think they’re immune, they just look at percentages. What’s the under 40s hospitalisation and death percentage in Brazil? Is it significantly more than here? I don’t know.

The number of people aged 39 or younger in intensive care units with COVID-19 in March rose sharply to more than 11,000, or 52.2 percent of the total, said the Brazilian ICU Project.

That was up from 14.6 percent of total ICU patients early in the pandemic and around 45 percent from September through February."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-04-b...-icus.html

Need some total figures as percentage of cases and deaths per case for context IMO. And how many have underlying conditions etc.

But in any case I’m just pointing out that some young folks will weigh it up and come to the conclusion they’re happy to trust their immune system. Each to their own, and I’m not going to tell anyone what to do.

[baggy1]

I don’t think they think they’re immune, they just look at percentages. What’s the under 40s hospitalisation and death percentage in Brazil? Is it significantly more than here? I don’t know.

The number of people aged 39 or younger in intensive care units with COVID-19 in March rose sharply to more than 11,000, or 52.2 percent of the total, said the Brazilian ICU Project.

That was up from 14.6 percent of total ICU patients early in the pandemic and around 45 percent from September through February."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-04-b...-icus.html

Need some total figures as percentage of cases and deaths per case for context IMO. And how many have underlying conditions etc.

But in any case I’m just pointing out that some young folks will weigh it up and come to the conclusion they’re happy to trust their immune system. Each to their own, and I’m not going to tell anyone what to do.

SM gives you data - 11k in ICU and nearly 3k died in March and you want to drill down into something that you pretty much said couldn't happen. Facts and evidence show that it is possible and if young and healthy people still want to take their chances whilst you stand by saying 'nothing to see here' then as you say, that is their choice, but it isn't a choice made based on facts.

[backsidebaggie]

I don’t think they think they’re immune, they just look at percentages. What’s the under 40s hospitalisation and death percentage in Brazil? Is it significantly more than here? I don’t know.

The number of people aged 39 or younger in intensive care units with COVID-19 in March rose sharply to more than 11,000, or 52.2 percent of the total, said the Brazilian ICU Project.

That was up from 14.6 percent of total ICU patients early in the pandemic and around 45 percent from September through February."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-04-b...-icus.html

Need some total figures as percentage of cases and deaths per case for context IMO. And how many have underlying conditions etc.

But in any case I’m just pointing out that some young folks will weigh it up and come to the conclusion they’re happy to trust their immune system. Each to their own, and I’m not going to tell anyone what to do.

SM gives you data - 11k in ICU and nearly 3k died in March and you want to drill down into something that you pretty much said couldn't happen. Facts and evidence show that it is possible and if young and healthy people still want to take their chances whilst you stand by saying 'nothing to see here' then as you say, that is their choice, but it isn't a choice made based on facts.

Christ I only said I think you’d need data in terms of percentages and underlying conditions! Surely that’s crucial for anyone who may be weighing things up?

What have I said couldn’t happen?! I know it’s possible for healthy under 40s to die of covid! Of course it is! But the numbers in the U.K. are tiny. And I also know it’s possible for drugs to pass phase 3 trials and later be found to be dangerous. That’s a fact too, but one you’re ignoring. It’s rare, but it’s a fact. Some people have weighed this up (and many other issues) and are wary of long term effects and other things, and don’t want the vaccine. Each to their own.

I’ve never said ”nothing to see here”, you’re putting words in my mouth. I’ve also not said young people are immune from covid. I’m explaining that some people in the world don’t agree with you and have looked at facts and come to a different conclusion. Simple as that! I’d accept it if I were you, or you’re becoming entrenched in the poisonous division I’m worried is going to take hold of the country, and you’re too decent a bloke for that.

[baggy1]

What you are saying is exactly what Boris was saying last March, “it’s a small risk and we’ll be ok”. If you knew at the time what you know now you would have been shouting from the rooftops, don’t make the same mistake as Boris did last year and underestimate this.

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And in fairness I’m not entrenched but I do see the warning signs. You might be right but I’d rather urge caution and as many vaccinated as possible because this isn’t something worth playing with.

[backsidebaggie]

What you are saying is exactly what Boris was saying last March, “it’s a small risk and we’ll be ok”. If you knew at the time what you know now you would have been shouting from the rooftops, don’t make the same mistake as Boris did last year and underestimate this.

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And in fairness I’m not entrenched but I do see the warning signs. You might be right but I’d rather urge caution and as many vaccinated as possible because this isn’t something worth playing with.

No I’m not! I’m saying to a young healthy individual, who has to make the choice on whether he/she has the vaccine, covid is a small risk TO THEM. The data fully supports that. And I’m not underestimating anything, I’m saying some will simply rather not have the vaccine. 

The division is going to get poisonous. I’m convinced. And I’ve already decided not to become part of that. Each to their own with the vaccine. Thems my onions.

[baggy1]

And as long as you give them the bigger picture that by them having the vaccine it will reduce the spread and protect their wider community that is fine because you thengiving them the full picture. Also it’s probably pointing them in the direction of cases in other parts of the world that are showing a higher risk to the younger population than we have experienced in the UK so far.

It really isn’t as simple as “it’s a small risk to them” it’s also as far as we know at this point.