Covid Vaccination ID

[backsidebaggie]

One of the questions I have is, seeing as we have now given the 1st dose to nearly 30M people and both doses to 2M, why are there some people that are still questioning the safety of the vaccine. At what point will they accept it is safe? 

And they do have the right to know what is going into their bodies I agree, but on that same point businesses have the right to prevent people from entering into their premises if they feel they pose a risk to the safety of other customers and / or their ability to continue operating. It can't go both ways.

The answer to that is always going to be they don’t know the long term effects. It’s up to them to decide when they feel it is safe for their body.

And in terms of pubs deciding who they wish to have in, yes you could argue that. But many will see this as a step towards mandation and a two tier society. I’m extremely uncomfortable with it. In addition, although the vaccine reduces transmission, it doesn’t prevent it. If the nhs is protected, the vulnerable are protected, how much further do we need to go? This could be the thin end of a wedge whereby any future vaccines are mandated for example? Are people comfortable with that, even if we’re comfortable having this vaccine? I’m not.

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I would imagine that the majority of people who mainly inhabit pubs and clubs are under 50's.

If a vaccine certificate is required then the pubs are going to be pretty quiet for a while.

And are we allowed to ask to see the certificates of the staff to ensure we are safe from them ?

Gonna get pretty messy 

It's a ridiculous idea.

If it's left to the discretion of the landlord then a) They'll be so desperate for business that pretty much all of the pubs will choose not to ask anyway and b) This isn't even news as pubs can refuse entry or service to people at their discretion already.

I agree. I find it quite sinister tbh.

[Borin' Baggie]

The take up so far is above 50% of the adult population, when the under 50s come online I would put a pessimistic estimate of 25% uptake then I don't think will so much of an issue for landlords to choose not to as most will be allowed with over 75% of the adult population vaccinated.

But the youngest adult categories won't have been offered the vaccine when they're targeting to introduce this, and we're getting to the point now where second doses are being prioritised over first doses which will delay that rollout further.

I can't see how this is in any way justifiable, especially considering that it's those least at risk from the virus and who have sacrificed the most being affected by it. It just smacks of a Conservative government not giving a shit about the rights offered to a subset of the population that doesn't vote for them yet again.

[baggy1]

So let's say that an asymptomatic person spreads the virus in a pub which leads to a local outbreak and that pub having to close. As a landlord how would you view that?

[Sliced]

One of the questions I have is, seeing as we have now given the 1st dose to nearly 30M people and both doses to 2M, why are there some people that are still questioning the safety of the vaccine. At what point will they accept it is safe? 

And they do have the right to know what is going into their bodies I agree, but on that same point businesses have the right to prevent people from entering into their premises if they feel they pose a risk to the safety of other customers and / or their ability to continue operating. It can't go both ways.

The answer to that is always going to be they don’t know the long term effects. It’s up to them to decide when they feel it is safe for their body.

And in terms of pubs deciding who they wish to have in, yes you could argue that. But many will see this as a step towards mandation and a two tier society. I’m extremely uncomfortable with it. In addition, although the vaccine reduces transmission, it doesn’t prevent it. If the nhs is protected, the vulnerable are protected, how much further do we need to go? This could be the thin end of a wedge whereby any future vaccines are mandated for example? Are people comfortable with that, even if we’re comfortable having this vaccine? I’m not.

---

I would imagine that the majority of people who mainly inhabit pubs and clubs are under 50's.

If a vaccine certificate is required then the pubs are going to be pretty quiet for a while.

And are we allowed to ask to see the certificates of the staff to ensure we are safe from them ?

Gonna get pretty messy 

It's a ridiculous idea.

If it's left to the discretion of the landlord then a) They'll be so desperate for business that pretty much all of the pubs will choose not to ask anyway and b) This isn't even news as pubs can refuse entry or service to people at their discretion already.

I agree. I find it quite sinister tbh.

Very sinister. There are groups of people who are currently medically excluded from getting the vaccine, so what happens with these?

 It's impossible to manage too. They literally don't know how long the antibodies last for at this point. It could be years, it could be 8 months, how can anything like this being introduced without knowing that. It may end up being a yearly jab in order to re-enter society.

If the vaccine works in preventing severe covid, which it does, and enough people are getting the vaccine, which they are, then this idea should be ridiculed. It's laughable, but somehow it's become a serious proposition.

[backsidebaggie]

So let's say that an asymptomatic person spreads the virus in a pub which leads to a local outbreak and that pub having to close. As a landlord how would you view that?

I thought the vaccine reduced severe cases by 95% so we would live with this forever like flu? When have pubs ever closed as people caught flu there?

[strawman]

Surely this is pointless if it is just applied to pubs. Shouldn't it be for any indoor gathering - what about cinemas, restaurants, cafes etc.
Some will see this as a great excuse to kick off - Still the security business should flourish 

As ever - pronouncements are made without thinking through the implications.

What if a new variant is found - do the vaccine certificates become null and void ?

Questions, questions !!

[baggy1]

So let's say that an asymptomatic person spreads the virus in a pub which leads to a local outbreak and that pub having to close. As a landlord how would you view that?

I thought the vaccine reduced severe cases by 95% so we would live with this forever like flu? When have pubs ever closed as people caught flu there?

So on one hand you say we don't know about the long term effects and on the other hand you accept it is working and does what is required, you seem to want it both ways?

[Borin' Baggie]

So let's say that an asymptomatic person spreads the virus in a pub which leads to a local outbreak and that pub having to close. As a landlord how would you view that?

This is the point, the government are passing the buck onto the pubs by legitimising this discrimination against those who haven't even been offered the chance to be vaccinated. This system should not be allowed to be implemented as landlords will be pressured to use it thanks to the government legitimising it.

By that logic pubs should have been allowed to open to those who are at an extremely low risk over the last year but that isn't fair either, is it?

And what do you do with young workers who might be asymptomatic and not offered the vaccine? Are they not allowed to work?

[backsidebaggie]

One of the questions I have is, seeing as we have now given the 1st dose to nearly 30M people and both doses to 2M, why are there some people that are still questioning the safety of the vaccine. At what point will they accept it is safe? 

And they do have the right to know what is going into their bodies I agree, but on that same point businesses have the right to prevent people from entering into their premises if they feel they pose a risk to the safety of other customers and / or their ability to continue operating. It can't go both ways.

The answer to that is always going to be they don’t know the long term effects. It’s up to them to decide when they feel it is safe for their body.

And in terms of pubs deciding who they wish to have in, yes you could argue that. But many will see this as a step towards mandation and a two tier society. I’m extremely uncomfortable with it. In addition, although the vaccine reduces transmission, it doesn’t prevent it. If the nhs is protected, the vulnerable are protected, how much further do we need to go? This could be the thin end of a wedge whereby any future vaccines are mandated for example? Are people comfortable with that, even if we’re comfortable having this vaccine? I’m not.

---

I would imagine that the majority of people who mainly inhabit pubs and clubs are under 50's.

If a vaccine certificate is required then the pubs are going to be pretty quiet for a while.

And are we allowed to ask to see the certificates of the staff to ensure we are safe from them ?

Gonna get pretty messy 

It's a ridiculous idea.

If it's left to the discretion of the landlord then a) They'll be so desperate for business that pretty much all of the pubs will choose not to ask anyway and b) This isn't even news as pubs can refuse entry or service to people at their discretion already.

I agree. I find it quite sinister tbh.

Very sinister. There are groups of people who are currently medically excluded from getting the vaccine, so what happens with these?

 It's impossible to manage too. They literally don't know how long the antibodies last for at this point. It could be years, it could be 8 months, how can anything like this being introduced without knowing that. It may end up being a yearly jab in order to re-enter society.

If the vaccine works in preventing severe covid, which it does, and enough people are getting the vaccine, which they are, then this idea should be ridiculed. It's laughable, but somehow it's become a serious proposition.

I think a year of covid seems to have completely taken over peoples thinking to the point the world should be set up to avoid covid first and foremost. It’s bizarre. The idea was to take strain off the nhs. Protect the vulnerable. The vaccine apparently does that. Now there is talk of a complete social system change all due to covid? It’s bizarre.

[Sliced]

So let's say that an asymptomatic person spreads the virus in a pub which leads to a local outbreak and that pub having to close. As a landlord how would you view that?

How does this scenario make any sense? How does a local "outbreak" happen if say, 90% of people over 18 have been vaccinated?  Why does the pub close down? As in it goes out of business!? How?

People with asymptomatic covid have a lower viral load, so they are less likely to pass on the virus. Those very few people who have had the vaccine and subsequently catch covid have even lower viral loads which is related to infectiousness. An outbreak isn't going to occur in the situation where almost everyone has been vaccinated and there's one bloke with asymptomatic covid.

The scenario your proposing isn't realistic. If I was a landlord I'd want people to come into my pub.