Covid Vaccination ID

[baggiebuckster]

Seems like a few on here are not too keen on the idea of the domestic passport. Be interesting to see how this pans out if Gove pushes his agenda through.

[baggy1]

Playing devil's advocate here, what would be the issues with digital id? We all manage our finances online now; we can all have our location tracked through phones, watches etc; your NHS record can be managed online, appointments, history, repeat prescriptions etc; we carry photo ID in the form of a driving licence and we have our foreign travel monitored through digital passports - why is there such a push against digital id?

If I want to be anonymous and am not doing anything wrong then I don't deserve to be treated like a criminal. Anonymity is a right.

Spot on. The funny thing is the government have dangled the carrot of get your vaccine for freedom back. Then moved the goalposts and you still can’t go on holiday! But on the more serious point, getting the vaccine to obtain a digital ID is not freedom. That’s the trick. Some people are being duped into it through fear of covid IMO.

The going on holiday part is not to do with the UK government, it will be to do with the country being travelled to and the airlines I would imagine. I would be reluctant to be letting foreign travel go ahead until later in the year though with the case numbers over there.

[backsidebaggie]

Playing devil's advocate here, what would be the issues with digital id? We all manage our finances online now; we can all have our location tracked through phones, watches etc; your NHS record can be managed online, appointments, history, repeat prescriptions etc; we carry photo ID in the form of a driving licence and we have our foreign travel monitored through digital passports - why is there such a push against digital id?

If I want to be anonymous and am not doing anything wrong then I don't deserve to be treated like a criminal. Anonymity is a right.

Spot on. The funny thing is the government have dangled the carrot of get your vaccine for freedom back. Then moved the goalposts and you still can’t go on holiday! But on the more serious point, getting the vaccine to obtain a digital ID is not freedom. That’s the trick. Some people are being duped into it through fear of covid IMO.

The going on holiday part is not to do with the UK government, it will be to do with the country being travelled to and the airlines I would imagine. I would be reluctant to be letting foreign travel go ahead until later in the year though with the case numbers over there.

Not true if holidays are delayed past 17 May (the provisional date in the roadmap). A number of countries have already said they will accept U.K. travellers (inc Turkey, Greece, Portugal) with a vaccine or negative test. A number of airlines have said the same. The airlines are literally desperate to get foreign holidays going again. If foreign holidays get delayed, that’s the governments decision. I’m not debating the right or wrong of it, but it’s on them if it gets delayed again, not the countries or airlines.

[baggy1]

If the public feel that going on holiday in June and July is what they want to do then they shouldn't be surprised if we have another lockdown in October. It really is as if we have forgotten what happened last year - plans are being made with the view that the vaccine makes us bulletproof, if someone travels to an area that has a high level of cases then there will be more bullets to avoid.

[backsidebaggie]

If the public feel that going on holiday in June and July is what they want to do then they shouldn't be surprised if we have another lockdown in October. It really is as if we have forgotten what happened last year - plans are being made with the view that the vaccine makes us bulletproof, if someone travels to an area that has a high level of cases then there will be more bullets to avoid.

Then why did they give a provisional date of 17 May? Last year people were told to wait until this year. Now it’s the same again... wait til next year. No one said the vaccine makes us bulletproof, but they said it would allow us to live with the virus and return our freedoms. It’s not happening. The science always means the goalposts keep moving. And how can I disagree? I can’t. 

If it’s about countries with high infection rates, fair enough, I’d fully expect holidays to places where infections are low to be allowed then. Eg Caribbean?

[baggy1]

You do realise that the dates were announced before Europe had it's third wave, we can't just ignore what changes because we have set a provisional date.

And you can go to the Caribbean in July and August, I just wouldn't recommend it without your sou'wester

[backsidebaggie]

Yes I realise that. That’s the science. I can’t argue. Checkmate. Again. Can’t you see the issue with this?

So the vaccines should never have really been sold as giving us our freedoms back should they? Because there was never a proviso of “as long as there’s no third wave in neighbouring countries” was there?

Let me take a wild guess.... “the science” will give another reason for lockdowns in the autumn (probably variants), those who haven’t been vaccinated will be blamed (again, who can argue, I can’t), and the necessity for domestic vaccine passports (digital ID) will become greater. And we can’t argue because the science says so. Checkmate.

Just wondering, at what point might you question whether the government aren’t being 100% honest about “the science”? Do you trust the government (and SAGE) totally with this? I don’t. It is the ultimate free pass IMO.

[baggy1]

Yes I realise that. That’s the science. I can’t argue. Checkmate. Again. Can’t you see the issue with this?

So the vaccines should never have really been sold as giving us our freedoms back should they? Because there was never a proviso of “as long as there’s no third wave in neighbouring countries” was there?

Let me take a wild guess.... “the science” will give another reason for lockdowns in the autumn (probably variants), those who haven’t been vaccinated will be blamed (again, who can argue, I can’t), and the necessity for domestic vaccine passports (digital ID) will become greater. And we can’t argue because the science says so. Checkmate.

Just wondering, at what point might you question whether the government aren’t being 100% honest about “the science”? Do you trust the government (and SAGE) totally with this? I don’t. It is the ultimate free pass IMO.

You are coming across as a little paranoid, there is, and has been, real reason for lockdowns to date. They were predictable and low and behold they happened. We got up to nearly 35k in hospital in January from something that could be predicted in September. We got to a position where we nearly had 20k in hospital in April when we could have prevented that number being so high, April was bad but could be forgiven based on it being so new, January was unforgivable because it was purely down to the Government trying to appease the people who wanted to have a nice Christmas. The fact they didn't have the balls to make a tough decision until it was too late tells you all you need to know about them.

As for foreign travel, we have earned our freedoms in this country because we have kept he numbers down through lockdown. The vaccination program means that we will have a good chance of enjoying the summer because the virus is being suppressed, if we travel to a country where it isn't being suppressed then we will bring it back into the country. It is beyond logical that we restrict the travel until that country has got vaccination rolling and cases down. It really isn't an attack on your personal freedoms, and you will be the 1st to moan if we have to go into another lockdown because cases, hospitalisations and deaths start to rise again in September.

Caution is the watchword, and be careful this bored is being monitored   . I've used the same measures all the way through this and I have no reason to think that the government, SAGE, the NHS, all their doctors and nurses and old uncle tom cobbly are in on some great scam to bring about control over my freedoms.

[backsidebaggie]

Yes I realise that. That’s the science. I can’t argue. Checkmate. Again. Can’t you see the issue with this?

So the vaccines should never have really been sold as giving us our freedoms back should they? Because there was never a proviso of “as long as there’s no third wave in neighbouring countries” was there?

Let me take a wild guess.... “the science” will give another reason for lockdowns in the autumn (probably variants), those who haven’t been vaccinated will be blamed (again, who can argue, I can’t), and the necessity for domestic vaccine passports (digital ID) will become greater. And we can’t argue because the science says so. Checkmate.

Just wondering, at what point might you question whether the government aren’t being 100% honest about “the science”? Do you trust the government (and SAGE) totally with this? I don’t. It is the ultimate free pass IMO.

You are coming across as a little paranoid, there is, and has been, real reason for lockdowns to date. They were predictable and low and behold they happened. We got up to nearly 35k in hospital in January from something that could be predicted in September. We got to a position where we nearly had 20k in hospital in April when we could have prevented that number being so high, April was bad but could be forgiven based on it being so new, January was unforgivable because it was purely down to the Government trying to appease the people who wanted to have a nice Christmas. The fact they didn't have the balls to make a tough decision until it was too late tells you all you need to know about them.

As for foreign travel, we have earned our freedoms in this country because we have kept he numbers down through lockdown. The vaccination program means that we will have a good chance of enjoying the summer because the virus is being suppressed, if we travel to a country where it isn't being suppressed then we will bring it back into the country. It is beyond logical that we restrict the travel until that country has got vaccination rolling and cases down. It really isn't an attack on your personal freedoms, and you will be the 1st to man if we have to go into another lockdown because cases, hospitalisations and deaths start to rise again in September.

Caution is the watchword, and be careful this bored is being monitored   . I've used the same measures all the way through this and I have no reason to think that the government, SAGE, the NHS, all their doctors and nurses and old uncle tom cobbly are in on some great scam to bring about control over my freedoms.

A lot of people have agreed with me on digital ID's this morning, considering I'm coming across a little paranoid. I suspect only you may think that, but I don't know.

I have absolutely no issue at all with the lockdowns in the winter. The NHS were clearly under serious stress.

The foreign travel explanation you have given is the science. I can't argue. Then I would ask why there was a provisional date of 17 May, and why travel to very low rate countries won't be allowed from 17 May. If it is allowed (eg a traffic light system), then I'll happily take that back.

I am absolutely NOT saying there is some "great scam" that everyone is involved in. I'm saying that it appears to me that the government have an incredible trump card to bring in something that I believe is hugely bad news - digital ID under the guise of a vaccine passport.

I am strongly against it for the reasons many of us gave this morning, and I do not trust the government not to "use" a crisis to bring in something like this.  That is not a "great scam" involving everyone. This would be a reduction in my freedoms (and many on here have agreed with me in this respect this morning), and if you think governments don't have potential to use a crisis to their advantage, well, fair enough. But I don't trust them one bit.

I have made a prediction for the autumn, and I'll be very very happy if I'm wrong.

But on the wider point, I am alarmed that the government have a kind of free pass, with a population that is significantly scared and had one thing (covid) hammered at them constantly for 12 months. I do think many people have developed "covid tunnel vision". The majority of the population would not trust this government in every respect. However, as long as a couple of members of SAGE stand next to them and say something is required, that's it. They trust it completely. I think that is a big problem. I don't think that makes me paranoid, I think it means my critical thinking is still intact.

[baggy1]

Of course you are being paranoid, you think that the government are trying to introduce a digital id when they are trying to introduce an easy way for people to prove they have been vaccinated so that they don't then have to get tested to get into concerts, festivals etc.

These systems are already in place, i have an NHS id that shows my history of vaccinations, if I want to go back to the far east I would need to be vaccinated for many other diseases.

We can't stay in lockdown forever and unfortunately if hospitalisations start to rise it will be too late to do anything other than lockdown. Until people realise that the virus transmits to wherever it can get a foothold (and it will get a better foothold in someone that isn't vaccinated) then we won't reduce it back to background noise.

There were so many people claiming that we wouldn't have a wave in the winter last August and September, and we had reached herd immunity only for them to disappear or change their tune by deleting their social media history when it happened as was predicted. You can make as many predictions as you like, but there is one basic fact, if hospitalisations start to go up because spread is occurring then it is already too late and will take weeks beyond that point to control it. The best way of controlling it before then is to make sure that we have as much protection against transmission as possible. One of those tools is vaccination and if people don't take up the option in enough numbers don't be surprised if we end up in another lockdown.