Durham

[baggy1]

Durham Police now saying he has broken lock down laws.

I've stayed very quiet on this issue, but Durham Police has not said that baggy1.

I stand corrected - he has committed a minor breach of the guidelines. He is also a spineless twat (in good company) that could have allowed everyone to move on quickly by saying sorry, I misjudged it and made a mistake. He couldn't have done that because as we all know that would have meant the media demanding a sacking, so he thought he'd twist the truth so far it really becomes Alice through the looking glass type reality and have that same media focus demanding a sacking.

The fact is simple - he shouldn't have done it and he's a prize prat for doing it.

But as you say - we need more of his type.

---

So what are your thoughts on Cummings? Surely you’re not that far down the rabbit hole to defend him?

I think what Cummings did is his own business.

I think Corbyn meeting his family and posing for selfies in Enfield this week is his own business.

I think the Deputy Mayor of Liverpool having a birthday garden party is her own business.

I think Vaughan Gething's chippy tea is his own business.

I think me and my brother breaking lockdown to spend a few hours with our dying mother is our own business.

I'm simply not comfortable living in a country full of curtain twitchers and sub-Stasi Facebook informants. We're all adults, we can all take responsibility for our actions.

You may disagree, that is fine. That's democracy.

One problem with all of those other examples is that they weren't covid-19 positive and they didn't take it half way across the country into another region and hospital.

[Ossian]

A couple of days ago I found myself in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with something Steve Baker said. He was questioning the amount of 'political capital' (his phrase) being expended to protect this one individual.

It's something that had also crossed my mind.

Of course that has nothing to do with Steve loathing Cummings...

Maybe that is the real source of our new found empathy (Steve and me, that is).

[Derek Hardballs]

So what are your thoughts on Cummings? Surely you’re not that far down the rabbit hole to defend him?

I think what Cummings did is his own business.

I think Corbyn meeting his family and posing for selfies in Enfield this week is his own business.

I think the Deputy Mayor of Liverpool having a birthday garden party is her own business.

I think Vaughan Gething's chippy tea is his own business.

I think me and my brother breaking lockdown to spend a few hours with our dying mother is our own business.

I'm simply not comfortable living in a country full of curtain twitchers and sub-Stasi Facebook informants. We're all adults, we can all take responsibility for our actions.

You may disagree, that is fine. That's democracy.

I think Cummings is a bit more high profile for the fact he helped draw up the rules lud, but I also see that a lot of the reporting and calls for his head are politically motivated and the original story linked in the OP is factually incorrect - his excuse for Barnard Castle is at best only partially true, and it has been confirmed was a 'minor breach' that might have broken the rules. That to me though is not something you sack people for, or maybe I am too soft a boss. The continual determination to keep this in the limelight and force a sacking/resignation is not actually helping the enforcement or clarity of lock down rules either, which if it was the primary concern would be reason for those doing so to desist to a degree, but of course their primary concern is a scalp. Cummings is a tit though, and he should apologise for the minor breach and putting Durham Police in the spotlight - they should not be part of this political football.
Anyway, sorry to hear about your mother, as others have already said.

Just because he says something isn’t true doesn’t make it so. Experience suggests that the truth is very flexible indeed for this government. How can you give them the benefit of a doubt what evidence is there to support such generosity? 

There was no need to travel 
There was absolutely no need to drive to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight ffs with his kid and wife in the car. How is that safe or indeed lawful? Hope she had a nice bday. 
He is a key advisor to Johnson and key to making the decisions millions were abiding by. Many of which did so at huge personal sacrifice. Talk about a slap in the face!
He’s an unelected bureaucrat that this government said should not be in receipt of power... erm! 

Yes some people don’t like him and imo for extremely good reason but it’s unfair to thousands of people who aren’t but still feel very aggrieved by these double standards to suggest that this was just a slap on the wrist misdemeanour. If you want someone or some people to blame for the crumbling lockdown / isolation rules look no further than Cummings and Johnson and the nodding dog cabinet.

Excellent summing up

[Baggie_Nick]

So what are your thoughts on Cummings? Surely you’re not that far down the rabbit hole to defend him?

I think what Cummings did is his own business.

I think Corbyn meeting his family and posing for selfies in Enfield this week is his own business.

I think the Deputy Mayor of Liverpool having a birthday garden party is her own business.

I think Vaughan Gething's chippy tea is his own business.

I think me and my brother breaking lockdown to spend a few hours with our dying mother is our own business.

I'm simply not comfortable living in a country full of curtain twitchers and sub-Stasi Facebook informants. We're all adults, we can all take responsibility for our actions.

You may disagree, that is fine. That's democracy.

I think Cummings is a bit more high profile for the fact he helped draw up the rules lud, but I also see that a lot of the reporting and calls for his head are politically motivated and the original story linked in the OP is factually incorrect - his excuse for Barnard Castle is at best only partially true, and it has been confirmed was a 'minor breach' that might have broken the rules. That to me though is not something you sack people for, or maybe I am too soft a boss. The continual determination to keep this in the limelight and force a sacking/resignation is not actually helping the enforcement or clarity of lock down rules either, which if it was the primary concern would be reason for those doing so to desist to a degree, but of course their primary concern is a scalp. Cummings is a tit though, and he should apologise for the minor breach and putting Durham Police in the spotlight - they should not be part of this political football.
Anyway, sorry to hear about your mother, as others have already said.

Just because he says something isn’t true doesn’t make it so. Experience suggests that the truth is very flexible indeed for this government. How can you give them the benefit of a doubt what evidence is there to support such generosity? 

There was no need to travel 
There was absolutely no need to drive to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight ffs with his kid and wife in the car. How is that safe or indeed lawful? Hope she had a nice bday. 
He is a key advisor to Johnson and key to making the decisions millions were abiding by. Many of which did so at huge personal sacrifice. Talk about a slap in the face!
He’s an unelected bureaucrat that this government said should not be in receipt of power... erm! 

Yes some people don’t like him and imo for extremely good reason but it’s unfair to thousands of people who aren’t but still feel very aggrieved by these double standards to suggest that this was just a slap on the wrist misdemeanour. If you want someone or some people to blame for the crumbling lockdown / isolation rules look no further than Cummings and Johnson and the nodding dog cabinet.

Excellent summing up

Or human nature. Two months is an awful long time to ask groups of people to stay apart for. Especially young people. It's been broken for quite some time now and I don't think that has anything to do with Dom or his assistant Boris. It's easier if your older, financially secure in a a relationship etc but it's always been a big ask for certain demographics. It's been crumbling since week 4. It's not been policed at all and it is what it is. Perhaps a second peak will make things more rigid and serious but I doubt it.

He's a bit of a cunt is Dom. They all know it too. But he's kept them in jobs and five months into a new term they're hardly going to throw him into the flames.

[Derek Hardballs]

So what are your thoughts on Cummings? Surely you’re not that far down the rabbit hole to defend him?

I think what Cummings did is his own business.

I think Corbyn meeting his family and posing for selfies in Enfield this week is his own business.

I think the Deputy Mayor of Liverpool having a birthday garden party is her own business.

I think Vaughan Gething's chippy tea is his own business.

I think me and my brother breaking lockdown to spend a few hours with our dying mother is our own business.

I'm simply not comfortable living in a country full of curtain twitchers and sub-Stasi Facebook informants. We're all adults, we can all take responsibility for our actions.

You may disagree, that is fine. That's democracy.

I think Cummings is a bit more high profile for the fact he helped draw up the rules lud, but I also see that a lot of the reporting and calls for his head are politically motivated and the original story linked in the OP is factually incorrect - his excuse for Barnard Castle is at best only partially true, and it has been confirmed was a 'minor breach' that might have broken the rules. That to me though is not something you sack people for, or maybe I am too soft a boss. The continual determination to keep this in the limelight and force a sacking/resignation is not actually helping the enforcement or clarity of lock down rules either, which if it was the primary concern would be reason for those doing so to desist to a degree, but of course their primary concern is a scalp. Cummings is a tit though, and he should apologise for the minor breach and putting Durham Police in the spotlight - they should not be part of this political football.
Anyway, sorry to hear about your mother, as others have already said.

Just because he says something isn’t true doesn’t make it so. Experience suggests that the truth is very flexible indeed for this government. How can you give them the benefit of a doubt what evidence is there to support such generosity? 

There was no need to travel 
There was absolutely no need to drive to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight ffs with his kid and wife in the car. How is that safe or indeed lawful? Hope she had a nice bday. 
He is a key advisor to Johnson and key to making the decisions millions were abiding by. Many of which did so at huge personal sacrifice. Talk about a slap in the face!
He’s an unelected bureaucrat that this government said should not be in receipt of power... erm! 

Yes some people don’t like him and imo for extremely good reason but it’s unfair to thousands of people who aren’t but still feel very aggrieved by these double standards to suggest that this was just a slap on the wrist misdemeanour. If you want someone or some people to blame for the crumbling lockdown / isolation rules look no further than Cummings and Johnson and the nodding dog cabinet.

Excellent summing up

I am not giving him the benefit of anything, I'm just not a sacking person if someone screws up (which he did despite his explanations), there are other reprimands. Also the hypocrisy of some of the critics and the misleading and untruthful accounts given initially like in the OP article you linked (which have not been corrected) also matter to me so I know there is a big political aspect to this as well as a genuine breach of the rules, in spirit, and in terms of the law - though minor and not as originally portrayed. Also I don't like the mob harassing him and the obvious political motives of some (though of course not all) puts my back up and I recoil from it.

You are giving him the benefit of doubt as you are seemingly taking his version of events in the rose garden as the truth. As I said I cannot see any reason to give them the benefit of doubt. I imagine the reporter hasn’t corrected their story as they stand by it. If that’s the case then it’s up to you to decide whose version of events you believe.

I make no apologies for being biased, they are hardly giving any evidence my mistrust is out of place.

[Derek Hardballs]

I think Cummings is a bit more high profile for the fact he helped draw up the rules lud, but I also see that a lot of the reporting and calls for his head are politically motivated and the original story linked in the OP is factually incorrect - his excuse for Barnard Castle is at best only partially true, and it has been confirmed was a 'minor breach' that might have broken the rules. That to me though is not something you sack people for, or maybe I am too soft a boss. The continual determination to keep this in the limelight and force a sacking/resignation is not actually helping the enforcement or clarity of lock down rules either, which if it was the primary concern would be reason for those doing so to desist to a degree, but of course their primary concern is a scalp. Cummings is a tit though, and he should apologise for the minor breach and putting Durham Police in the spotlight - they should not be part of this political football.
Anyway, sorry to hear about your mother, as others have already said.

Just because he says something isn’t true doesn’t make it so. Experience suggests that the truth is very flexible indeed for this government. How can you give them the benefit of a doubt what evidence is there to support such generosity? 

There was no need to travel 
There was absolutely no need to drive to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight ffs with his kid and wife in the car. How is that safe or indeed lawful? Hope she had a nice bday. 
He is a key advisor to Johnson and key to making the decisions millions were abiding by. Many of which did so at huge personal sacrifice. Talk about a slap in the face!
He’s an unelected bureaucrat that this government said should not be in receipt of power... erm! 

Yes some people don’t like him and imo for extremely good reason but it’s unfair to thousands of people who aren’t but still feel very aggrieved by these double standards to suggest that this was just a slap on the wrist misdemeanour. If you want someone or some people to blame for the crumbling lockdown / isolation rules look no further than Cummings and Johnson and the nodding dog cabinet.

Excellent summing up

I am not giving him the benefit of anything, I'm just not a sacking person if someone screws up (which he did despite his explanations), there are other reprimands. Also the hypocrisy of some of the critics and the misleading and untruthful accounts given initially like in the OP article you linked (which have not been corrected) also matter to me so I know there is a big political aspect to this as well as a genuine breach of the rules, in spirit, and in terms of the law - though minor and not as originally portrayed. Also I don't like the mob harassing him and the obvious political motives of some (though of course not all) puts my back up and I recoil from it.

You are giving him the benefit of doubt as you are seemingly taking his version of events in the rose garden as the truth. As I said I cannot see any reason to give them the benefit of doubt. I imagine the reporter hasn’t corrected their story as they stand by it. If that’s the case then it’s up to you to decide whose version of events you believe.

I make no apologies for being biased, they are hardly giving any evidence my mistrust is out of place.

No, not taking his version as true at all - you are mistaken and I have said that in more than one post so I am not sure why you think I believe him. But his version tallies better than the link in the OP to the police version, though it has clearly omitted other motivations.

How can the reporter stand by the story in the OP link which (like others they ran) where the main thrust is that police spoke to Cummings himself (they didn't) and about lock down rules (they didn't) - facts. The first two paragraphs of that story in the link have been demonstrated as false, as police have confirmed. 

You give out about journalists not checking the facts properly and printing what the govt reports - I don't, it's part of the job.
And I do not blame the Guardian for running the original story if they thought the original facts and source were correct - turns out though they were wrong. They have not corrected it though or apologised, just chosen other lines of attack and glossed over it. That is utter hypocrisy for them and those that repeat the story they like and give out about 'bias media' when they don't like a story. 

Okay for you not to apologise for bias, why should you? But you hold your hand up, the Guardian didn't -I'd expect that from the Mirror not them and they have gone too far down the political bias line away from true journalism recently. And it also means if you do hold this bias yourself, not caring about this from the left, that it does not look so believable when you criticise 'fake news' yourself from the right. And I make no apologies for hating the politicising of this pandemic and not looking to rush to judgment on people or demand heads on plates with a politically motivated mob if they fuck up. I think the extreme anti government line is as fanatic as the extreme support them whatever line that you rightly call fanatic too.

I haven’t said my position I surmised why they haven’t retracted their report. Myself I don’t think either are accurate. Also the Police’s statements also changed as the story progressed far as I’m aware. I doubt we shall ever get to the absolute truth. The wider issue of whether he should be anywhere near power and I don’t, I stand by, and anyone who wants an open, honest, accountable government I cannot see how they can argue to the contrary.

You will have to ask certain other posters why I should not be biased but others on the side of the political divide are never asked to be. That wasn’t aimed at you btw

[The liquidator]

I think what Cummings did is his own business.

I think Corbyn meeting his family and posing for selfies in Enfield this week is his own business.

I think the Deputy Mayor of Liverpool having a birthday garden party is her own business.

I think Vaughan Gething's chippy tea is his own business.

I think me and my brother breaking lockdown to spend a few hours with our dying mother is our own business.

I'm simply not comfortable living in a country full of curtain twitchers and sub-Stasi Facebook informants. We're all adults, we can all take responsibility for our actions.

You may disagree, that is fine. That's democracy.

I think Cummings is a bit more high profile for the fact he helped draw up the rules lud, but I also see that a lot of the reporting and calls for his head are politically motivated and the original story linked in the OP is factually incorrect - his excuse for Barnard Castle is at best only partially true, and it has been confirmed was a 'minor breach' that might have broken the rules. That to me though is not something you sack people for, or maybe I am too soft a boss. The continual determination to keep this in the limelight and force a sacking/resignation is not actually helping the enforcement or clarity of lock down rules either, which if it was the primary concern would be reason for those doing so to desist to a degree, but of course their primary concern is a scalp. Cummings is a tit though, and he should apologise for the minor breach and putting Durham Police in the spotlight - they should not be part of this political football.
Anyway, sorry to hear about your mother, as others have already said.

Just because he says something isn’t true doesn’t make it so. Experience suggests that the truth is very flexible indeed for this government. How can you give them the benefit of a doubt what evidence is there to support such generosity? 

There was no need to travel 
There was absolutely no need to drive to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight ffs with his kid and wife in the car. How is that safe or indeed lawful? Hope she had a nice bday. 
He is a key advisor to Johnson and key to making the decisions millions were abiding by. Many of which did so at huge personal sacrifice. Talk about a slap in the face!
He’s an unelected bureaucrat that this government said should not be in receipt of power... erm! 

Yes some people don’t like him and imo for extremely good reason but it’s unfair to thousands of people who aren’t but still feel very aggrieved by these double standards to suggest that this was just a slap on the wrist misdemeanour. If you want someone or some people to blame for the crumbling lockdown / isolation rules look no further than Cummings and Johnson and the nodding dog cabinet.

Excellent summing up

I am not giving him the benefit of anything, I'm just not a sacking person if someone screws up (which he did despite his explanations), there are other reprimands. Also the hypocrisy of some of the critics and the misleading and untruthful accounts given initially like in the OP article you linked (which have not been corrected) also matter to me so I know there is a big political aspect to this as well as a genuine breach of the rules, in spirit, and in terms of the law - though minor and not as originally portrayed. Also I don't like the mob harassing him and the obvious political motives of some (though of course not all) puts my back up and I recoil from it.

You are giving him the benefit of doubt as you are seemingly taking his version of events in the rose garden as the truth. As I said I cannot see any reason to give them the benefit of doubt. I imagine the reporter hasn’t corrected their story as they stand by it. If that’s the case then it’s up to you to decide whose version of events you believe.

I make no apologies for being biased, they are hardly giving any evidence my mistrust is out of place.

Get on that Nissan  thread ivd been waiting hours and run out of pop corn .

[Shabby Russian]

Last post on this subject.

Clear he should have at least offered to resign. There should have been some acknowledgement that what he did was not in the spirit of the lockdown guidelines.

The Government are making it very clear they are not going to move on this issue.

As someone who wants good government I am saddened by this. But putting my partisan politically biased head on, it's all good. There are many people who are not political animals who are appalled by the Govt response to this, they have been denied 'closure' on this issue and consequently this sense of dissatisfaction with the Conservative Govt will remain with them and will be something used in the future to help them decide who to vote for. It may not be the main determining factor, but it will be a factor.

[baggy1]

The government have shot themselves in the foot on this one, unfortunately as the figures on this situation come out it will only get worse. 65,000 excess deaths this year compared with last year, I've seen a figure of cancer diagnoses being down 60,000 this so far this year as well, that is a ticking time bomb if people aren't being diagnosed. It will get worse for the government because they can't admit transparent politically motivated decisions, and can't recognise that giggling through interviews and / or not knowing basic stats from their remit will bite them big time.

[Protheroe]

Clear he should have at least offered to resign. There should have been some acknowledgement that what he did was not in the spirit of the lockdown guidelines.

I love the authoritarian Left.