Americans

[baggiebloke]

It took 7 years before an effective antiretroviral for AIDS was developed, after  nearly 40 years no effective vaccine has been developed for AIDs and they estimate another 10 years. There is no guarantee that a vaccine will be developed for the current virus and no vaccine is 100% effective anyway, it relies on being effective enough for enough people to create herd immunity and not infect others.

You cannot keep people prisoners in their homes for extended periods of time, sooner or later people will say fuck it, if we have no life anyway we'll take our chances on death. Looks like the some Americans have decided sooner.

So, genuine question, in the possible event of no vaccine and no effective antiretroviral, how long before people on here are prepared to sacrifice their freedoms

How many people are you prepared to throw under the bus for our freedoms and other people’s death sentences? By people just going back to work you leave at least a million vulnerable people of various ages locked at home because the we shall see wave after wave of significant outbreaks. We are nowhere near ready to come out of lockdown, we gave up tracking and mapping  the virus in early March which would have allowed us to isolate outbreaks and lock them down before they got out of control. What have we got currently? 

I’ve heard that they are thinking of asking kids to go back to school... they must be some of the biggest if not the biggest germ factories we have. The idea children and teenagers are going to self isolate themselves or that teachers will be able to enforce it is hopeful at best. 

Sort out the testing and mapping first then start relaxing lock down.

How many are you prepared to throw under the bus?

People are going to die from treatable conditions because they are too scared to seek help. The data already shows this is happening, referrals to critical care pathways are way down. Chemo treatments are being suspended or cancelled. When you consider that large scale unemployment brings its own problems both social and healthcare you have to wonder what is the best way to proceed. 

Continue as we are and sacrifice the lives of the young or open back up and risk the lives of the elderly? It's a decision I'm glad I don't have to make.

Let’s look at things logically, we currently have a very limited way of knowing who has and hasn’t got the virus. Until we know that to an extent (it’s not perfect but better than stumbling around in the dark) where the virus is, where the hot spots are in the general public we are never going to deal the the virus effectively particularly without a vaccine. Taking the decision to let everyone back to work, school without this knowledge will simply see the virus infection rate spike again if there is no proper procedure to lock down areas of high infection. How is that methodology going to see patients with cancer etc be cared for / feel confident to go back to hospital? Their immunity is already compromised and yet they are supposed to be treated in the same hospital that’s battling another wave of Covid infections brought about by people being forced back to work when we haven’t got the first wave under control yet? How will capacity to treat everyone be helped by bringing the lockdown to a close early?

Also people of all ages are dying not just the elderly, it’s putting the economy before lives to relax the lockdown which isn’t very strict relatively speaking anyway before the nation not just certain sections of it. Put proper community testing in place in sufficient numbers before this stupid idea of letting people back to work or school otherwise we shall be back to square one within the year.

I read recently that a couple of countries are going to perform tests on untreated sewerage to estimate the number of people with the virus.  This is something they have been doing to determine the number of people taking illegal drugs and something I was told 15 years ago that Italy was performing.

Yer shittin me.

[Bristolbion]

All this criticism of America... while watching US films, TV shows, wearing US style clothing, using American software on their Anerican smartphones... I'd be a little more worried by China than by the US.

Agreed
Maybe this government will think twice about selling their arses to any Tom Dick & Harry

Didnt they give a contract to them to run a nuclear power station recently?

Agree. Huawei decision by this government seems to be a wrong one.

In a previous job in telecoms software, I had to deal directly with Huawei, who were at that time an up and coming business in Europe. I’ve dealt with some dodgy bastards in my time, but they were head and shoulders above anyone else in being lying, deceitful, back-stabbing bastards. 
I guess the bosses of Imagination Technologies feel the same about the Chinese. 
Read and weep, especially when you consider that our inept government handed it to them on a plate. Laughing all the way to Beijing 
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52275201
[url=https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52275201][/url]

[Fulham Fallout]

How many people are you prepared to throw under the bus for our freedoms and other people’s death sentences? By people just going back to work you leave at least a million vulnerable people of various ages locked at home because the we shall see wave after wave of significant outbreaks. We are nowhere near ready to come out of lockdown, we gave up tracking and mapping  the virus in early March which would have allowed us to isolate outbreaks and lock them down before they got out of control. What have we got currently? 

I’ve heard that they are thinking of asking kids to go back to school... they must be some of the biggest if not the biggest germ factories we have. The idea children and teenagers are going to self isolate themselves or that teachers will be able to enforce it is hopeful at best. 

Sort out the testing and mapping first then start relaxing lock down.

How many are you prepared to throw under the bus?

People are going to die from treatable conditions because they are too scared to seek help. The data already shows this is happening, referrals to critical care pathways are way down. Chemo treatments are being suspended or cancelled. When you consider that large scale unemployment brings its own problems both social and healthcare you have to wonder what is the best way to proceed. 

Continue as we are and sacrifice the lives of the young or open back up and risk the lives of the elderly? It's a decision I'm glad I don't have to make.

Let’s look at things logically, we currently have a very limited way of knowing who has and hasn’t got the virus. Until we know that to an extent (it’s not perfect but better than stumbling around in the dark) where the virus is, where the hot spots are in the general public we are never going to deal the the virus effectively particularly without a vaccine. Taking the decision to let everyone back to work, school without this knowledge will simply see the virus infection rate spike again if there is no proper procedure to lock down areas of high infection. How is that methodology going to see patients with cancer etc be cared for / feel confident to go back to hospital? Their immunity is already compromised and yet they are supposed to be treated in the same hospital that’s battling another wave of Covid infections brought about by people being forced back to work when we haven’t got the first wave under control yet? How will capacity to treat everyone be helped by bringing the lockdown to a close early?

Also people of all ages are dying not just the elderly, it’s putting the economy before lives to relax the lockdown which isn’t very strict relatively speaking anyway before the nation not just certain sections of it. Put proper community testing in place in sufficient numbers before this stupid idea of letting people back to work or school otherwise we shall be back to square one within the year.

I read recently that a couple of countries are going to perform tests on untreated sewerage to estimate the number of people with the virus.  This is something they have been doing to determine the number of people taking illegal drugs and something I was told 15 years ago that Italy was performing.

Yer shittin me.

I think "taking the piss" may have worked better

[Babel]

Don’t tread on me.

[chasetownbaggie]

It took 7 years before an effective antiretroviral for AIDS was developed, after  nearly 40 years no effective vaccine has been developed for AIDs and they estimate another 10 years. There is no guarantee that a vaccine will be developed for the current virus and no vaccine is 100% effective anyway, it relies on being effective enough for enough people to create herd immunity and not infect others.

You cannot keep people prisoners in their homes for extended periods of time, sooner or later people will say fuck it, if we have no life anyway we'll take our chances on death. Looks like the some Americans have decided sooner.

So, genuine question, in the possible event of no vaccine and no effective antiretroviral, how long before people on here are prepared to sacrifice their freedoms

How many people are you prepared to throw under the bus for our freedoms and other people’s death sentences? By people just going back to work you leave at least a million vulnerable people of various ages locked at home because the we shall see wave after wave of significant outbreaks. We are nowhere near ready to come out of lockdown, we gave up tracking and mapping  the virus in early March which would have allowed us to isolate outbreaks and lock them down before they got out of control. What have we got currently? 

I’ve heard that they are thinking of asking kids to go back to school... they must be some of the biggest if not the biggest germ factories we have. The idea children and teenagers are going to self isolate themselves or that teachers will be able to enforce it is hopeful at best. 

Sort out the testing and mapping first then start relaxing lock down.

Teachers are not allowed to discipline kids these days as it may upset the poor little dears, what chance of making them observe social distancing!

Well that's not true. Disciplining a child doesn't mean having to physically harm them.

[baggiebloke]

It took 7 years before an effective antiretroviral for AIDS was developed, after  nearly 40 years no effective vaccine has been developed for AIDs and they estimate another 10 years. There is no guarantee that a vaccine will be developed for the current virus and no vaccine is 100% effective anyway, it relies on being effective enough for enough people to create herd immunity and not infect others.

You cannot keep people prisoners in their homes for extended periods of time, sooner or later people will say fuck it, if we have no life anyway we'll take our chances on death. Looks like the some Americans have decided sooner.

So, genuine question, in the possible event of no vaccine and no effective antiretroviral, how long before people on here are prepared to sacrifice their freedoms

How many people are you prepared to throw under the bus for our freedoms and other people’s death sentences? By people just going back to work you leave at least a million vulnerable people of various ages locked at home because the we shall see wave after wave of significant outbreaks. We are nowhere near ready to come out of lockdown, we gave up tracking and mapping  the virus in early March which would have allowed us to isolate outbreaks and lock them down before they got out of control. What have we got currently? 

I’ve heard that they are thinking of asking kids to go back to school... they must be some of the biggest if not the biggest germ factories we have. The idea children and teenagers are going to self isolate themselves or that teachers will be able to enforce it is hopeful at best. 

Sort out the testing and mapping first then start relaxing lock down.

Teachers are not allowed to discipline kids these days as it may upset the poor little dears, what chance of making them observe social distancing!

Well that's not true. Disciplining a child doesn't mean having to physically harm them.

Absolutely.

Psychological torture is infinitely more effective.

[Duffers]

All this criticism of America... while watching US films, TV shows, wearing US style clothing, using American software on their Anerican smartphones... I'd be a little more worried by China than by the US.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Indeed, never understood why people need to engage in whataboutery. Americans being stupid has absolutely no relevance to the Chinese being dodgy.

[Cheshire East Baggie]

All this criticism of America... while watching US films, TV shows, wearing US style clothing, using American software on their Anerican smartphones... I'd be a little more worried by China than by the US.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

There are plenty of sensible Americans who think Trump is an idiot.

Let's revisit that thought after the election in November. Of course it's traditional in elections (here and the US) for the winner to have fewer actual votes than the loser - - - -

[Borin' Baggie]

All this criticism of America... while watching US films, TV shows, wearing US style clothing, using American software on their Anerican smartphones... I'd be a little more worried by China than by the US.

Agreed
Maybe this government will think twice about selling their arses to any Tom Dick & Harry

Didnt they give a contract to them to run a nuclear power station recently?

Agree. Huawei decision by this government seems to be a wrong one.

The reason we have gone with Huawei is because we have a choice of either Cisco or Huawei, both have huge security concerns but one is a lot cheaper than the other.

If Thatcher's ministry didn't fuck up the BT privatisation and wind down the research arm then we would have a domestic company capable of implementing 5G equipment but unfortunately we don't.

[fuzzbox]

The reason we have gone with Huawei is because we have a choice of either Cisco or Huawei, both have huge security concerns but one is a lot cheaper than the other.

If Thatcher's ministry didn't fuck up the BT privatisation and wind down the research arm then we would have a domestic company capable of implementing 5G equipment but unfortunately we don't.

Hasn't it been proven that the american government inserted 'exploits' in Cisco software to spy on foreign governments and foreign multinationals for years?
As opposed to Huwei, where the very same american government say the chinese government 'might' be able to spy on foreign governments