What has gone wrong?

[Bloke who lives abroad]

I’ve always said losing Gibbs is catalyst to our issues, he’s different class at this level, even without the ball his runs and space he creates for others is top class

I think since we hit the top of the league sides view us differently and set up accordingly, less so when they’re at home and we’re away, where we still get space to play but at The Hawthorns sides sit deep like Stoke did or press us high like Barnsley did, as long as they deny us space and let Sawyers and Livermore have the ball deep we do lack a good plan B, as poor as Kenneth was last night and in hindsight Edwards was the better sub to make I see why Bilic went that way, Kenneth had 2 in 2 and must have been close to starting but at least he has a physical presence in the box and we can go front to back quicker, direct if you like, should we wish too and at times last night we did, alas Kenneth lost the battle more often than not

A shake up or tweak in the system is what’s needed, he may have to break up the Livermore/Sawyers partnership, especially at home and he has to leave out one of his favorites in Townsend who just isn’t good enough at this level

Cuzer

Agree with that.

Gibbs has been a huge loss. As has Grady and, really, Ferguson. (Though he faded a bit).

Most teams would struggle to lose 3 of their key players.

Also agree that we need to mix it up and go direct sometimes. Last night, until Brunt came on, we just kept taking the same approach; slow build up, a lot of passing but no end result.

No-one wants to see hoofball. But theres nowt wrong with mixing up both approaches in a game. And thats what we need to do!

[Squid]

I’ve always said losing Gibbs is catalyst to our issues, he’s different class at this level, even without the ball his runs and space he creates for others is top class

I think since we hit the top of the league sides view us differently and set up accordingly, less so when they’re at home and we’re away, where we still get space to play but at The Hawthorns sides sit deep like Stoke did or press us high like Barnsley did, as long as they deny us space and let Sawyers and Livermore have the ball deep we do lack a good plan B, as poor as Kenneth was last night and in hindsight Edwards was the better sub to make I see why Bilic went that way, Kenneth had 2 in 2 and must have been close to starting but at least he has a physical presence in the box and we can go front to back quicker, direct if you like, should we wish too and at times last night we did, alas Kenneth lost the battle more often than not

A shake up or tweak in the system is what’s needed, he may have to break up the Livermore/Sawyers partnership, especially at home and he has to leave out one of his favorites in Townsend who just isn’t good enough at this level

Cuzer

Agree with that.

Gibbs has been a huge loss. As has Grady and, really, Ferguson. (Though he faded a bit).

Most teams would struggle to lose 3 of their key players.

Also agree that we need to mix it up and go direct sometimes. Last night, until Brunt came on, we just kept taking the same approach; slow build up, a lot of passing but no end result.

No-one wants to see hoofball. But theres nowt wrong with mixing up both approaches in a game. And thats what we need to do!

This is all spot on. And yes, sometimes you need to get the ball up the pitch to give the opposition something to deal with. As soon as Brunt came on, we could do that.

[Ministry Of Silly Signings]

Losing Diangana, Gibbs and Ferguson has completely unbalanced our side, and whilst we can cope with losing one of them, they're three key players for our set up and we're struggling to replace them.

Diangana is our outlet and gets us in behind, he also frees up Periera to dictate play and is one of Sawyers ' key outlet passes. His pace is also crucial in how fast he presses teams, how quickly he tracks back and how high up he wins a lot of turnovers in midfield which prevents teams getting a break on us. Without this we expose Sawyers' defensive frailties and teams can commit two men on Periera knowing that it will draw Sawyers/Livermore further up the field and give them more chances to break on us.

Gibbs (and to a degree Furlong) bring raw pace to the side, and act as an overlapping winger which pins teams back. Ferguson tucking into a back 3 gives cover to allow the opposite fullback to maraud forward and overload the opposition. Ferguson also has a lot of pace, along with Ajayi and to a lesser degree Bartley, which allows us to press further and further up the field.  Townsend has neither the pace, nor the defensive nous to slot into that centreback role, which means Furlong stays deeper and as a result we don't overload teams and force them back as much - again, without a naturally pacy front man this is a huge loss.

Put all this together and we have a team that can move a ball nicely amongst itself, but has little or no penetration going forward and carries little risk on the counter. We also have to commit more bodies forward in central midfield which if pressed will make mistakes. Barnsley's manager in the 2-2 showed how to play us, and now with  key players missing it's far easier to do this.

Slav hasn't always picked the best sides from what we have available to counter this issue IMO, and if Grady is out for any significant amount of time he has to change our approach or he'll come under a LOT of pressure.

If we need pace is Burke coming back ?

[Tom Joad]

Losing Diangana, Gibbs and Ferguson has completely unbalanced our side, and whilst we can cope with losing one of them, they're three key players for our set up and we're struggling to replace them.

Diangana is our outlet and gets us in behind, he also frees up Periera to dictate play and is one of Sawyers ' key outlet passes. His pace is also crucial in how fast he presses teams, how quickly he tracks back and how high up he wins a lot of turnovers in midfield which prevents teams getting a break on us. Without this we expose Sawyers' defensive frailties and teams can commit two men on Periera knowing that it will draw Sawyers/Livermore further up the field and give them more chances to break on us.

Gibbs (and to a degree Furlong) bring raw pace to the side, and act as an overlapping winger which pins teams back. Ferguson tucking into a back 3 gives cover to allow the opposite fullback to maraud forward and overload the opposition. Ferguson also has a lot of pace, along with Ajayi and to a lesser degree Bartley, which allows us to press further and further up the field.  Townsend has neither the pace, nor the defensive nous to slot into that centreback role, which means Furlong stays deeper and as a result we don't overload teams and force them back as much - again, without a naturally pacy front man this is a huge loss.

Put all this together and we have a team that can move a ball nicely amongst itself, but has little or no penetration going forward and carries little risk on the counter. We also have to commit more bodies forward in central midfield which if pressed will make mistakes. Barnsley's manager in the 2-2 showed how to play us, and now with  key players missing it's far easier to do this.

Slav hasn't always picked the best sides from what we have available to counter this issue IMO, and if Grady is out for any significant amount of time he has to change our approach or he'll come under a LOT of pressure.

Bang on SW. We have lost the entire threat on one side of the pitch.

[Remi_Moses]

Losing Diangana, Gibbs and Ferguson has completely unbalanced our side, and whilst we can cope with losing one of them, they're three key players for our set up and we're struggling to replace them.

Diangana is our outlet and gets us in behind, he also frees up Periera to dictate play and is one of Sawyers ' key outlet passes. His pace is also crucial in how fast he presses teams, how quickly he tracks back and how high up he wins a lot of turnovers in midfield which prevents teams getting a break on us. Without this we expose Sawyers' defensive frailties and teams can commit two men on Periera knowing that it will draw Sawyers/Livermore further up the field and give them more chances to break on us.

Gibbs (and to a degree Furlong) bring raw pace to the side, and act as an overlapping winger which pins teams back. Ferguson tucking into a back 3 gives cover to allow the opposite fullback to maraud forward and overload the opposition. Ferguson also has a lot of pace, along with Ajayi and to a lesser degree Bartley, which allows us to press further and further up the field.  Townsend has neither the pace, nor the defensive nous to slot into that centreback role, which means Furlong stays deeper and as a result we don't overload teams and force them back as much - again, without a naturally pacy front man this is a huge loss.

Put all this together and we have a team that can move a ball nicely amongst itself, but has little or no penetration going forward and carries little risk on the counter. We also have to commit more bodies forward in central midfield which if pressed will make mistakes. Barnsley's manager in the 2-2 showed how to play us, and now with  key players missing it's far easier to do this.

Slav hasn't always picked the best sides from what we have available to counter this issue IMO, and if Grady is out for any significant amount of time he has to change our approach or he'll come under a LOT of pressure.

Good post your thinking matches mine in many areas - I would like to see some of the 1st choice player dropped and others given a run in the first team. Bilic hasn't done this, but with several players struggling I cannot see how the O'shea's / Willocks / Tullochs can do any worse.
With no sign of new faces Bilic has no choice IMO. I still believe our biggest issue is having no BALLS on the pitch and others know it.