Here we go again

[DemonicBaggie]

Who’s apologising for them?

"For the water companies, blame regulators and our nineteenth century sewers...."

[Tom Joad]

One of the things I don't get about this Thames Water story (and it's equally applied to others previously) is that - unless Company Law has changed beyond all recognition from what I recall - dividends were only payable from any residual profits/reserves after Corporation Tax. So, if Thames water has been in a position to legitimately pay dividends, why has it needed to keep loading debt to the point where it is now all but insolvent? 

I'm guessing 'creative' use of Capital Allowances has played some part, although the state of the infrastructure would leave me wondering what capital investment has actually been taking place. 

Needs one of the finance professionals from the main board to unravel it for this bewildered layman.

Well I'm not one of 'em but I've tried to unravel it and there's a lot of smoke and mirrors. It seems they "owe" a lot of money to some other companies in their group. TBH, it doesn't need a forensic accountant, it needs some fuggers with clubs and sharp sticks !

[man in the corner shop]

The idea that capitalism has lifted billions out of extreme poverty is one that is widely stated, but those making it rarely have to justify it.
If they did I think they would struggle to do so.
In the UK for example, if it had been left to the capitalists then high levels of absolute poverty would have lasted far longer than they did.
There is no reason to believe that this would be any less true globally.

The adoption of markets by an otherwise awful regime has pretty much eradicated absolute poverty in China in a generation or two. How much more evidence do you need?

In the UK government used to recognise what it was for in the enablement and effective regulation of markets. As it is, crony capitalism and the nationalisation of risk threatens to condemn us all to tax servitude.

Grinding poverty exists only these days in states that eschew markets, property rights and the rule of law. Tell me I'm wrong?

---

Sure. All the problems it appears to solve also inevitably produce a new set as a consequence. Ad infinitum (look it up)

Really? "All the problems"?

So working fewer hours than ever, being better housed, educated, fed and clothed than ever - largely due to the magic of markets has thrown up what particular First World Problems in its place?

Externalties? Definitely. But all have been, are, or could be overcome with effective regulation and incentivisation.

This is quite an amazingly unbalanced version of what happened. Decent working hours, weekends off, decent housing etc,  were fought for by trade unions and their representatives in parliament. Not merely given away kindly by capitalism. 

Weekends for example

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/03/how-wor...he-weekend

If capitalism had its way we'd still be barefooted and sending kids up chimneys. 

If capitalism gives anything away, it does so only kicking and screaming - is what history and the present tells me.

[CaptainFantastico]

The idea that capitalism has lifted billions out of extreme poverty is one that is widely stated, but those making it rarely have to justify it.
If they did I think they would struggle to do so.
In the UK for example, if it had been left to the capitalists then high levels of absolute poverty would have lasted far longer than they did.
There is no reason to believe that this would be any less true globally.

The adoption of markets by an otherwise awful regime has pretty much eradicated absolute poverty in China in a generation or two. How much more evidence do you need?

In the UK government used to recognise what it was for in the enablement and effective regulation of markets. As it is, crony capitalism and the nationalisation of risk threatens to condemn us all to tax servitude.

Grinding poverty exists only these days in states that eschew markets, property rights and the rule of law. Tell me I'm wrong?

---

Sure. All the problems it appears to solve also inevitably produce a new set as a consequence. Ad infinitum (look it up)

Really? "All the problems"?

So working fewer hours than ever, being better housed, educated, fed and clothed than ever - largely due to the magic of markets has thrown up what particular First World Problems in its place?

Externalties? Definitely. But all have been, are, or could be overcome with effective regulation and incentivisation.

Do you think those that underpin it in the third world share that view? Your answer is as narrow minded as the belief you aired in the first place

[Protheroe]

I’m sorry. For the second time in this thread I don’t understand your post.

[rsbaggy2]

Just as with the banks, privatise the profits and nationalise the losses.
It's what capitalism does. And people don't bat an eyelid.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68682198

Government nationalised the banks losses. If markets had functioned as they ought to then the banks would've gone bust. Don't blame capitalism, blame government.

For the water companies, blame regulators and our nineteenth century sewers.

Capitalism has lifted billions out of extreme poverty world wide. We'd be far worse off without it.

More bollocks from you.
It's never the tories fault ... profits not re invested but distributed to shareholders. Infrastructure crumbles but they don't care as long as they cream off the surplus. 
Now let's make the bill payers and the public bail us out. 
Cunts .. no redeeming feature for the last 14 years of a government whose main desire was and still is to rape the public services. 
Bastards

[Tom Joad]

The idea that capitalism has lifted billions out of extreme poverty is one that is widely stated, but those making it rarely have to justify it.
If they did I think they would struggle to do so.
In the UK for example, if it had been left to the capitalists then high levels of absolute poverty would have lasted far longer than they did.
There is no reason to believe that this would be any less true globally.

The adoption of markets by an otherwise awful regime has pretty much eradicated absolute poverty in China in a generation or two. How much more evidence do you need?

In the UK government used to recognise what it was for in the enablement and effective regulation of markets. As it is, crony capitalism and the nationalisation of risk threatens to condemn us all to tax servitude.

Grinding poverty exists only these days in states that eschew markets, property rights and the rule of law. Tell me I'm wrong?

---

Sure. All the problems it appears to solve also inevitably produce a new set as a consequence. Ad infinitum (look it up)

Really? "All the problems"?

So working fewer hours than ever, being better housed, educated, fed and clothed than ever - largely due to the magic of markets has thrown up what particular First World Problems in its place?

Externalties? Definitely. But all have been, are, or could be overcome with effective regulation and incentivisation.

This is quite an amazingly unbalanced version of what happened. Decent working hours, weekends off, decent housing etc,  were fought for by trade unions and their representatives in parliament. Not merely given away kindly by capitalism. 

Weekends for example

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/03/how-wor...he-weekend

If capitalism had its way we'd still be barefooted and sending kids up chimneys. 

If capitalism gives anything away, it does so only kicking and screaming - is what history and the present tells me.

Spot on, Mon in the Corner Shop.  Me, you, most on this bored and Protheroe too, would all have spent our childhood up fuckin chimneys if capitalism wasn't reigned in, much thanks to the efforts of our grandparents. Modern day tories should recognise their own insignificance in the new world.  Renting out a few ex Council houses doesn't make you a finance guru and those new tories crying over a realistic interest rate increase are typical of what Thatcher would have described as needing making leaner. 
Tories, 1st with their snouts in the trough, last when doing anything useful. Working class tories should really have a good look at themselves. They'll be back doing the shite jobs the second someone else with more clout breezes in no matter how much cap doffing they do.

[CaptainFantastico]

Proth clearly doesn’t understand that the lifestyle improvements he describes are founded on just exploiting a more global set of human beings. I doubt those doing 12 hours in south Asian sweatshops celebrate these “gains” quite as fervently.

As for education and health being the product of capitalism, top Arf on that one.

He’s a naive fella, for sure.

[Tom Joad]

Proth clearly doesn’t understand that the lifestyle improvements he describes are founded on just exploiting a more global set of human beings. I doubt those doing 12 hours in south Asian sweatshops celebrate these “gains” quite as fervently.

As for education and health being the product of capitalism, top Arf on that one.

He’s a naive fella, for sure.

And housing, don't forget...

[Protheroe]

Wow. We can have housing, healthcare & education without the receipts derived from the free exchange of goods & services?

I won’t bother paying my Corporation Tax tomorrow in that case.