Training….

[MrFizz]

You should be getting more out of Grant, Dike and Asante. Grant is a proven goalscorer at this level. Loathe him or not

"Ar, but he's bloody crap ay he!!!!!!!!!"

[MancBaggie]

I can see a number of reasons for the slump (injuries, playing your best player where he is of little use, bringing in the new players, luck going against us where before it went for us, a lack of confidence in the keeper, form tailing off for some players who were previously playing at their max) but I do wonder whether the OP could be right.

When you are tired you get your legs in a tangle like Molumby and Pieters, don't close down so quickly like Okay. We know what happened to Leeds under Bielsa and our squad is a lot maturer than that Leeds team.

Tend to agree with this.  

That was a tough game last night even though Watford are better on paper than their sum total.  The real crime was 1 point from Blues and Blackburn - when we should be good enough to get 4 minimum.

Ted is also correct in that it shows how little margin for error we have after giving that fat fool 16 games.  The worry is the choices CC is making in selections, positions and this approach of defending narrow leads (which he certainly did at Huddersfield) and has been doing here since the Stoke game.  It nearly cost us v Reading and Cov and certainly did against Burnley and Blackburn

[Stillclem4england]

Not wishing to take sides on the over training debate but seeing as we are starting poorly and then playing much better in the 2nd half and pressing better with more pace that would suggest its not a fitness issue.

I think what we are seeing is that teams have simply had enough time to now work out Carlos' tactics and set up. Its not like we have any variations in our style of play. Our replacements are always like for like and you never see a formation change. With limited quality in reserve that leaves us vulnerable.

I'd like to see us start with round pegs in round holes with Wallace wide right and Swifty in the 10 role and Mulumbys energy bombing around. Start on the front foot again and go at sides. Its our best chance of success imo. We need to double down what we did on the start of our run.

I think every single person in the universe wants that. Except for one.... Totally agree about being on the front foot - we are no longer good enough defensively to play any other way.

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I can see a number of reasons for the slump (injuries, playing your best player where he is of little use, bringing in the new players, luck going against us where before it went for us, a lack of confidence in the keeper, form tailing off for some players who were previously playing at their max) but I do wonder whether the OP could be right.

When you are tired you get your legs in a tangle like Molumby and Pieters, don't close down so quickly like Okay. We know what happened to Leeds under Bielsa and our squad is a lot maturer than that Leeds team.

Tend to agree with this.  

That was a tough game last night even though Watford are better on paper than their sum total.  The real crime was 1 point from Blues and Blackburn - when we should be good enough to get 4 minimum.

Ted is also correct in that it shows how little margin for error we have after giving that fat fool 16 games.  The worry is the choices CC is making in selections, positions and this approach of defending narrow leads (which he certainly did at Huddersfield) and has been doing here since the Stoke game.  It nearly cost us v Reading and Cov and certainly did against Burnley and Blackburn

It's a good point about narrow margins. I was saying to Hudds earlier that, on the good run, we'd surrender chances hanging onto a goal lead but they'd go wide or Palmer would make a save. Now they are going in.

[Mr Nimbus]

Not wishing to take sides on the over training debate but seeing as we are starting poorly and then playing much better in the 2nd half and pressing better with more pace that would suggest its not a fitness issue.

I think what we are seeing is that teams have simply had enough time to now work out Carlos' tactics and set up. Its not like we have any variations in our style of play. Our replacements are always like for like and you never see a formation change. With limited quality in reserve that leaves us vulnerable.

I'd like to see us start with round pegs in round holes with Wallace wide right and Swifty in the 10 role and Mulumbys energy bombing around. Start on the front foot again and go at sides. Its our best chance of success imo. We need to double down what we did on the start of our run.

I think every single person in the universe wants that. Except for one.... Totally agree about being on the front foot - we are no longer good enough defensively to play any other way.

---

I can see a number of reasons for the slump (injuries, playing your best player where he is of little use, bringing in the new players, luck going against us where before it went for us, a lack of confidence in the keeper, form tailing off for some players who were previously playing at their max) but I do wonder whether the OP could be right.

When you are tired you get your legs in a tangle like Molumby and Pieters, don't close down so quickly like Okay. We know what happened to Leeds under Bielsa and our squad is a lot maturer than that Leeds team.

Tend to agree with this.  

That was a tough game last night even though Watford are better on paper than their sum total.  The real crime was 1 point from Blues and Blackburn - when we should be good enough to get 4 minimum.

Ted is also correct in that it shows how little margin for error we have after giving that fat fool 16 games.  The worry is the choices CC is making in selections, positions and this approach of defending narrow leads (which he certainly did at Huddersfield) and has been doing here since the Stoke game.  It nearly cost us v Reading and Cov and certainly did against Burnley and Blackburn

It's a good point about narrow margins. I was saying to Hudds earlier that, on the good run, we'd surrender chances hanging onto a goal lead but they'd go wide or Palmer would make a save. Now they are going in.

Palmer pulled off some absolute blinders in that run, maybe one or two per game to memory.  He started to look unbeatable which gives your defenders a calmness.  He was an important part of the momentum that was built.  Bizarrely, we also miss the Bartman who won 6 points in one week if I remember right and without him we don't have anyone who can really attack corners.

[baggpuss]

You should be getting more out of Grant, Dike and Asante. Grant is a proven goalscorer at this level. Loathe him or not

More goals certainly because, after all - Isn't that what strikers are meant to do?

[Tom Joad]

Not wishing to take sides on the over training debate but seeing as we are starting poorly and then playing much better in the 2nd half and pressing better with more pace that would suggest its not a fitness issue.

I think what we are seeing is that teams have simply had enough time to now work out Carlos' tactics and set up. Its not like we have any variations in our style of play. Our replacements are always like for like and you never see a formation change. With limited quality in reserve that leaves us vulnerable.

I'd like to see us start with round pegs in round holes with Wallace wide right and Swifty in the 10 role and Mulumbys energy bombing around. Start on the front foot again and go at sides. Its our best chance of success imo. We need to double down what we did on the start of our run.

Agree. We don't respond well when pressed hard, Watford were excellent at this 1st 45.  As much mentioned, Jed is our biggest threat and Player of the Season, I can't see any sense in moving him off the wing. Albrighton is normally fine on the left wing, I'm sure he'll come good but I'd like to see BTA or Grant on the left more often. Grady really isn't doing it currently and shouldn't be automatic 1st sub. I also think we often weaken the team by making subs for the sake of it.
For me, last night's change would have been Albrighton off for Molumby and stiffen the MF. However, CC's changes led to us bossing the 2nd half and but for two deflections we would have come away with at least a point. Some better finishing would help no end too.
I agree with Cuzer that TGH is a good option from the bench but can't agree on Ajayi, even when he is having one of his better games he is likely to cost us a goal.

[Cuzer]

No you charmless nurk. Shouting very loudly at others who disagree with your ‘expert’ analysis doesn’t mean you’re right. 

We gave the ball away too cheaply
We are trying to play new players in the team and it’s not gelling and is having a negative rather positive affect on the team. 
We have lost a calming influence with Palmer injured 
We are getting pressed far higher up the pitch in recent games and we aren’t great at coping with it
The team has lost confidence, which we have seen earlier in the season is fragile to say the least 

If you want to put it down to training too hard that’s fine but that doesn’t make it a fact.

You’re just a sarky cunt

Or trying to be, I told you as much

That’s that

Cuzer

You know swearing at me doesn’t make your assertion it’s a problem of fitness a fact.

And your comment of “quite” added fuck all to the initial comment

You’ve got previous fella, you know your agenda

Cuzer

Your opening post suggests that you think you know better than our manager with regard to training and I disagree that you do and agreed with WBA13 who said as much. That’s my ‘agenda’.

Which Derek, is absolute bollocks

It’s my opinion they’re training too hard, define too hard? Never once suggested I know better than CC

My point was certain players were looking very leggy, very early on, in the game yesterday 

I also pointed out we trained Saturday and Sunday which naturally may have a bearing on some

It’s not the first I’ve I’ve raised the point re training and something which has ate away at me for a while, mainly due to the fact we know how unfit they were under Bruce

Cuzer