Argentina

[Protheroe]

This is for me why Messi has never been the top player in the World, as brilliant as he’s been for Barcelona never done it in an Argentina shirt. Does not come close to the legendary Pele.

Or Diego.

[Atomic]

This is for me why Messi has never been the top player in the World, as brilliant as he’s been for Barcelona never done it in an Argentina shirt. Does not come close to the legendary Pele.

He won the Copa America with them last year.

Don’t make excuses for him never comes to the fore in biggest tournament. 
Big deal that’s like England beating Wales Scotland and Ireland, it’s no achievement only have to beat Brazil. As I said never done it for Argentina.

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So sad watching Messi. He's been on the decline for years but when I remember what he was like at his absolute peak its enough to make you cry watching him now. 1/4 of the player he once was.

Stark regression since he joined PSG but that's what two seasons of swapping games against Real Madrid and Sevilla for games against Sporting Baguette de Fromage will do to you.

He's been on the decline since around 2015. He was just that good that he was still as good as anyone else even though he was regressing. 

Now though, it's painful, can barely raise a sprint. Relying totally on brains and technique. However good you are if you can't move you're pretty much fkd.

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This is for me why Messi has never been the top player in the World, as brilliant as he’s been for Barcelona never done it in an Argentina shirt. Does not come close to the legendary Pele.

He won the Copa America with them last year.

And scored 90 odd goals for them.

Still never done it when it mattered.

Won the Copa America which is the equivalent of our Euros. In any case it takes more than one man to make a team. 

Argentina now have the same problems they've had for decades, lack of size and physicality.

[Spandaubaggie]

We live in an era where the biggest clubs have such obscene wealth that they can build a team of superstars worth a billion pounds around them.

Both Messi and Ronaldo have been benefactors of this lopsided footballing travesty that has made domestic leagues far less competitive than they were.

They've also been helped by having their skills in an era where pitches are like bowling greens. To add to this modern media means we see every bit of their brilliance. The media hype also adds to this.

Maradona to me is the best, as he put Napoli on the map and lifted Argentina to the World Cup at a time when they looked quite ordinary bar his brilliance. To those who recall 86 they will all back up he was like from another planet.

Give him the protection afforded modern players, team mates who are galacticos and the pristine bowling greens and think he's have surpassed all that these 2 modern superstars have done.

Modern conditions have aligned to put them ahead of the rest, when really they are just the best of their incredibly privileged generation.

I'd like to have seen Ronaldo v the likes of Terry Butcher on a boggy sandy pitch in January.

[Duffers]

We live in an era where the biggest clubs have such obscene wealth that they can build a team of superstars worth a billion pounds around them.

Both Messi and Ronaldo have been benefactors of this lopsided footballing travesty that has made domestic leagues far less competitive than they were.

They've also been helped by having their skills in an era where pitches are like bowling greens. To add to this modern media means we see every bit of their brilliance. The media hype also adds to this.

Maradona to me is the best, as he put Napoli on the map and lifted Argentina to the World Cup at a time when they looked quite ordinary bar his brilliance. To those who recall 86 they will all back up he was like from another planet.

Give him the protection afforded modern players, team mates who are galacticos and the pristine bowling greens and think he's have surpassed all that these 2 modern superstars have done.

Modern conditions have aligned to put them ahead of the rest, when really they are just the best of their incredibly privileged generation.

I'd like to have seen Ronaldo v the likes of Terry Butcher on a boggy sandy pitch in January.

Messi and Ronaldo have spent most of their careers being booted up into the air by cloggers like Butcher. They’ve just kept getting up and being better.

[wba13]

When you’ve been on pitches like the likes of Mathews, Finney, Best and our own Willie and Laurie played on and we’re rarely injured against real cloggers like Harris, Hunter, mackay.then you can say your the best not on the pristine pitches the likes of Messi and Ronaldo play on against players who aren’t allowed to tackle.

[Duffers]

There’s some serious “everything was better in my day” bullshit going on here. Why do the modern players have to conform to past standards? Put the likes of Hunter eat al on a modern pitch with Messi and they wouldn’t get near him.

Comparing players who played 50 years apart is reductive and stupid, the differences is fitness, tactics, pitches, balls, boots… they may as well be playing different sports.

Still waiting for wba13 to explain why taking a team to major tournament win doesn’t count as “doing something when it matters” too.

[Spandaubaggie]

We live in an era where the biggest clubs have such obscene wealth that they can build a team of superstars worth a billion pounds around them.

Both Messi and Ronaldo have been benefactors of this lopsided footballing travesty that has made domestic leagues far less competitive than they were.

They've also been helped by having their skills in an era where pitches are like bowling greens. To add to this modern media means we see every bit of their brilliance. The media hype also adds to this.

Maradona to me is the best, as he put Napoli on the map and lifted Argentina to the World Cup at a time when they looked quite ordinary bar his brilliance. To those who recall 86 they will all back up he was like from another planet.

Give him the protection afforded modern players, team mates who are galacticos and the pristine bowling greens and think he's have surpassed all that these 2 modern superstars have done.

Modern conditions have aligned to put them ahead of the rest, when really they are just the best of their incredibly privileged generation.

I'd like to have seen Ronaldo v the likes of Terry Butcher on a boggy sandy pitch in January.

Messi and Ronaldo have spent most of their careers being booted up into the air by cloggers like Butcher. They’ve just kept getting up and being better.

No they haven't Duffers. Modern protection of players is on a different level compared to 30 or 40 years ago.

I recall a top ref fairly recently reviewed the 1970 FA Cup final and said something crazy like 15 players would have been sent off by today's standards.

It's like the age old argument about the best at any sport, you can never prove it. Modern advancements have really helped Ronaldo and Messi - there is no denying their brilliance, but on a more level playing field of Internationals at big tournaments when they aren't playing whipping boys like Guatemala or San Marino can you say they have shown the level of play Messi did in 86?

Really it's like an argument on pop music. It's what your era is.

[Ted Maul]

There's nothing funnier than the good old days merchants... truth is any professional footballer from the last few years would run straight through the players of the 70s and 80s.

They're faster, stronger, fitter and despite the pitches, it just wouldn't be a fair fight. Instead of saying "I'd like to see Messi on some of the old pitches" I'd like to see some idiot hoofer try and catch him as he's dancing rings round him at the Nou Camp. Times have changed, get over it.

[Birdman1811]

Some absolute bollocks written on this thread.

Comparing players from different eras is always futile. Would those older players have had the discipline both Messi and Ronaldo have had to stay at the top in the modern game where a single cigarrete affects performance by up to 1%, where body fat has to be kept to a percentage which can be classed as dangerous considering the amount of running they are required to do?

As for comparing both of them, it's quite simple. Messi is a far, far better footballer naturally, he has a natural talent and balance that is very, very rarely seen. however he is always a cog in the machine. Ronaldo is a disciplined machine who had a great amount of natural talent, but not the most, many players have had more, but he had the discipline and kept himself in a physical condition to make him an absolute machine.

If I was a manager and I could pick one, if I had a team of top, top players already but wanted a final piece, that part to make the team invincible, Messi. If I had an average team but needed a superstar to lift them to heights they could never imagine, Ronaldo.

[Spandaubaggie]

There’s some serious “everything was better in my day” bullshit going on here. Why do the modern players have to conform to past standards? Put the likes of Hunter eat al on a modern pitch with Messi and they wouldn’t get near him.

Comparing players who played 50 years apart is reductive and stupid, the differences is fitness, tactics, pitches, balls, boots… they may as well be playing different sports.

Still waiting for wba13 to explain why taking a team to major tournament win doesn’t count as “doing something when it matters” too.

Be sensible about this Duffers. Do you not think the players of the 1970s would have the privileges of better pitches, diets too. As I said you can only be the best in your era.

However, can you not see that Barcelona, Real Madrid etc have a level of superiority that they never had in past eras before money poisoned the game. All players playing with world stars around them will look way better than in a pool of closely matched teams as the World Cup provides.

For instance Haaland will break all kinds of records, but having £100m players galore around him he will also get more chances. 

The very best have all the tools to look the very best now.