Down to 10th then back up to 9th...

[MrFizz]

Following on from "we're slipping out of play-off contention and it's vital that we get promoted this season, so Val has to go", it now seems to be moving towards "we're not good enough to go up anyway, so there's no point in getting into the play-offs - best to build for next season and change the squad".

Largely because of the fans, Ismael was hounded out 7 months into a 4 year rebuilding project because instant success this season was regarded as non-negotiable, but now that suddenly doesn't matter anymore and we can just write this season off?

Many people were regarding Ismael as the problem when he was here and his tactics were holding the players back, but now he's gone some of those people have switched to saying it's the players who aren't good enough and we need a big clear-out.

Double standards and/or revisionism at play here?

Its an interesting point Worcs. I was late to the 'Val out' party. I was still backing him in the pub before the Preston game. By full-time it was clear the players had lost faith/given up and he needed to go. Millwall reinforced that.

Now we have a more flexible, experienced man in charge we are hoping for a bounce, a late run into the play-offs and then who knows. 

However, the choice is this: stay down, give Bruce a Summer to get rid of some, get some in and have a crack at it, or go up, keep what we have, spend money on additions to try and keep us up, come back down and be right back where we are now.

I've got more faith in Bruce to build a squad with decent enough players to get us up, and with a few additions, give us a fair chance of staying up. If that takes a year and a half, so be it.

[Cunninghamismagic]

I certainly didn't see much "building" from Ismael. I get the feeling we will look back at his time in charge as a bit of a disaster.

Not sure how people think Bruce will be able to build if we stay down. I can just see cost cutting and a further reduction in quality.

[MrFizz]

I certainly didn't see much "building" from Ismael. I get the feeling we will look back at his time in charge as a bit of a disaster.

Not sure how people think Bruce will be able to build if we stay down. I can just see cost cutting and a further reduction in quality.

In terms of finances theres no actual difference, as apparently we have budgeted to spread the parachute payments over 3yrs. Whether thats true or not i don't know.

[TETLEY74]

Following on from "we're slipping out of play-off contention and it's vital that we get promoted this season, so Val has to go", it now seems to be moving towards "we're not good enough to go up anyway, so there's no point in getting into the play-offs - best to build for next season and change the squad".

Largely because of the fans, Ismael was hounded out 7 months into a 4 year rebuilding project because instant success this season was regarded as non-negotiable, but now that suddenly doesn't matter anymore and we can just write this season off?

Many people were regarding Ismael as the problem when he was here and his tactics were holding the players back, but now he's gone some of those people have switched to saying it's the players who aren't good enough and we need a big clear-out.

Double standards and/or revisionism at play here?

Its an interesting point Worcs. I was late to the 'Val out' party. I was still backing him in the pub before the Preston game. By full-time it was clear the players had lost faith/given up and he needed to go. Millwall reinforced that.

Now we have a more flexible, experienced man in charge we are hoping for a bounce, a late run into the play-offs and then who knows. 

However, the choice is this: stay down, give Bruce a Summer to get rid of some, get some in and have a crack at it, or go up, keep what we have, spend money on additions to try and keep us up, come back down and be right back where we are now.

I've got more faith in Bruce to build a squad with decent enough players to get us up, and with a few additions, give us a fair chance of staying up. If that takes a year and a half, so be it.

This is sort of where i am at moment, unfortunately those that wanted Val gone will no doubt be screaming abuse and bile at Bruce in the next few games if we dont win them all and go up ,he will then be hounded out and the next man moves then rinse and repeat!  
Honestly don't know what some of our fans want anymore some become more deluded and seal like with every passing day. 
Lets just get behind the manager and team as one unified voice starting tomorrow for the remainder of the season and see where we are at seasons end COYB .

[Dumbo]

Following on from "we're slipping out of play-off contention and it's vital that we get promoted this season, so Val has to go", it now seems to be moving towards "we're not good enough to go up anyway, so there's no point in getting into the play-offs - best to build for next season and change the squad".

Largely because of the fans, Ismael was hounded out 7 months into a 4 year rebuilding project because instant success this season was regarded as non-negotiable, but now that suddenly doesn't matter anymore and we can just write this season off?

Many people were regarding Ismael as the problem when he was here and his tactics were holding the players back, but now he's gone some of those people have switched to saying it's the players who aren't good enough and we need a big clear-out.

Double standards and/or revisionism at play here?

Its an interesting point Worcs. I was late to the 'Val out' party. I was still backing him in the pub before the Preston game. By full-time it was clear the players had lost faith/given up and he needed to go. Millwall reinforced that.

Now we have a more flexible, experienced man in charge we are hoping for a bounce, a late run into the play-offs and then who knows. 

However, the choice is this: stay down, give Bruce a Summer to get rid of some, get some in and have a crack at it, or go up, keep what we have, spend money on additions to try and keep us up, come back down and be right back where we are now.

I've got more faith in Bruce to build a squad with decent enough players to get us up, and with a few additions, give us a fair chance of staying up. If that takes a year and a half, so be it.

This is sort of where i am at moment, unfortunately those that wanted Val gone will no doubt be screaming abuse and bile at Bruce in the next few games if we dont win them all and go up ,he will then be hounded out and the next man moves then rinse and repeat!  
Honestly don't know what some of our fans want anymore some become more deluded and seal like with every passing day. 
Lets just get behind the manager and team as one unified voice starting tomorrow for the remainder of the season and see where we are at seasons end COYB .

We’re currently in our lowest league position in the last 25 years. With the squad we’ve had in the last 2 decades. To want better than that makes us deluded?

[TETLEY74]

Following on from "we're slipping out of play-off contention and it's vital that we get promoted this season, so Val has to go", it now seems to be moving towards "we're not good enough to go up anyway, so there's no point in getting into the play-offs - best to build for next season and change the squad".

Largely because of the fans, Ismael was hounded out 7 months into a 4 year rebuilding project because instant success this season was regarded as non-negotiable, but now that suddenly doesn't matter anymore and we can just write this season off?

Many people were regarding Ismael as the problem when he was here and his tactics were holding the players back, but now he's gone some of those people have switched to saying it's the players who aren't good enough and we need a big clear-out.

Double standards and/or revisionism at play here?

Its an interesting point Worcs. I was late to the 'Val out' party. I was still backing him in the pub before the Preston game. By full-time it was clear the players had lost faith/given up and he needed to go. Millwall reinforced that.

Now we have a more flexible, experienced man in charge we are hoping for a bounce, a late run into the play-offs and then who knows. 

However, the choice is this: stay down, give Bruce a Summer to get rid of some, get some in and have a crack at it, or go up, keep what we have, spend money on additions to try and keep us up, come back down and be right back where we are now.

I've got more faith in Bruce to build a squad with decent enough players to get us up, and with a few additions, give us a fair chance of staying up. If that takes a year and a half, so be it.

This is sort of where i am at moment, unfortunately those that wanted Val gone will no doubt be screaming abuse and bile at Bruce in the next few games if we dont win them all and go up ,he will then be hounded out and the next man moves then rinse and repeat!  
Honestly don't know what some of our fans want anymore some become more deluded and seal like with every passing day. 
Lets just get behind the manager and team as one unified voice starting tomorrow for the remainder of the season and see where we are at seasons end COYB .

We’re currently in our lowest league position in the last 25 years. With the squad we’ve had in the last 2 decades. To want better than that makes us deluded?

No not at all thats perfectly justifiable, it was aimed more at the way people turn on managers if we haven't won all our games 3-0 and not got promtion within the 1st 4 games.

[standitupbackstick]

Our forays into the Premiershit are purely for financial purposes. On that basis, going up via the playoffs should be our aim as that route is the most lucrative I think?

[Cuzer]

There is zero doubt for me Val would have got this shower into the top six, zero doubt

Cuzer

[Swagbaggie]

Whilst play offs are still a possibility, why would anyone want us to be promoted.

There is very little chance of us getting anywhere near a squad capable of competing in the premiership.

And whilst many argue there is a financial incentive,  I suspect we would waste it on a futile attempt to build a squad capable of avoiding relegation.

If we get to the play offs I wouldn't be confident of us winning them. I'm still a bit scared by the two must win games we failed to win at the end of the Bilic promotion season to have any confidence in a successful play off attempt.

It is difficult IMO.
The thought that we would play not to go up or win something is against everything I believe in.
However as the last time we were promoted under Bilic it is plain to see we would not be remotely competitive in that league.
Last season was as dire as any I have experienced as a fan - until this one.
It was so obvious how poor we were we should have been planning for relegation, retention of our talent and immediate rebuild but as our bored don't have the decency to stick with a manager who IMO could have done that, at very least with the talent, we now find ourselves floundering around with a squad not only weaker than 2 seasons ago but weaker than it has been for many years.
A dalliance with a nob like Allardyce and a pretender like Ismael has only pushed the club further down.
We will get hammered next year in the Prem.
The only saving grace, and it is a massive one, is the finance it gives to the club but what a soulless position it is for the club to be in.

[Shabby Russian]

On reflection, I want us to win every game we play and the consequence of that would be promotion.

But I think there is a silver lining to the cloud that is missing out on promotion.

I have a degree of faith in Bruce that in 18 months time he might have led us to promotion and in a shape that relegation from the premiership isn't nailed on.