What should society do
#1
with people who refuse to join vaccination programmes?
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#2
Try to educate them is my only suggestion.

('Educate' might sound patronising, but it seems like the most appropriate choice of word)
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#3
It is frustrating that there are some that, at this point, appear not to want to have the jab for whatever reason, but I would look at this in more detail when we get to the actual end of the roll out. Currently there have been over 70% of the population that has taken up the jab (I'm assuming that the vast majority of those who have had the 1st jab will have the 2nd) and we still have to roll it out to the under 35s. Although the take up is likely to be less within the remaining age group (which accounts for about 25% of the adult population) I would estimate that we will still get up to at least 85% of the population jabbed by the end of the roll out. 

What happens next will be key - if those people find that they are the group that are getting infected and being hospitalised I would hope that common sense tells them they need to get the jab, if we do get a spike in autumn / winter and it is affecting all groups then the ones that haven't been jabbed have to understand that this government will lay the blame at their door, have no doubt about that. Johnson and his team will point towards them to absolve themselves of any responsibility / failing.

Currently infections are still around but the key factor is that hospitalisations and deaths are extremely low in the grand scale of the past 14 months. They might not need to have the jab with the amount that have but they have to be realistic about the outlooks and where it will put them by making that decision.
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#4
I wondered if the OP was too vague to get people interested.

I was listening to the radio the other day when i heard a couple of comments made by the public about what should happen to people who didn't get vaccinated. I was quite shocked by the levels of intolerance, one of the comments was that they shouldn't be employed or received benefits, quite a strong position.

I was trying to find out if this was a commonly shared view or the view of an extreme minority.

My view for what it is worth is that people should have the vaccination, i have my second jab booked for a couple of weeks time. However i don't think people should be compelled to have it, nor receive sanction if they don't have it.

In a free society, we should be allowed to have control over what happens to us, and this extends to what medications we are willing to take.

In essence it's an example of participatory democracy, the vast majority of people will take up the vaccine offer, giving sufficient cover against covid to mitigate its effects. It might have been the other way round, and the majority didn't take the vaccine, in which case as a society we were prepared to take the consequences of that action.
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#5
(05-21-2021, 08:05 AM)baggy1 Wrote: It is frustrating that there are some that, at this point, appear not to want to have the jab for whatever reason, but I would look at this in more detail when we get to the actual end of the roll out. Currently there have been over 70% of the population that has taken up the jab (I'm assuming that the vast majority of those who have had the 1st jab will have the 2nd) and we still have to roll it out to the under 35s. Although the take up is likely to be less within the remaining age group (which accounts for about 25% of the adult population) I would estimate that we will still get up to at least 85% of the population jabbed by the end of the roll out. 

What happens next will be key - if those people find that they are the group that are getting infected and being hospitalised I would hope that common sense tells them they need to get the jab, if we do get a spike in autumn / winter and it is affecting all groups then the ones that haven't been jabbed have to understand that this government will lay the blame at their door, have no doubt about that. Johnson and his team will point towards them to absolve themselves of any responsibility / failing.

Currently infections are still around but the key factor is that hospitalisations and deaths are extremely low in the grand scale of the past 14 months. They might not need to have the jab with the amount that have but they have to be realistic about the outlooks and where it will put them by making that decision.

We've had this debate before and I know we're only going over old ground, but making the decision should not put anyone in any different situation (other than a higher risk of getting covid/serious covid).

I shudder when I hear phrases like "what should we do with them?". I think in years to come people will be ashamed of saying such things.

Absolutely nothing is the answer. Its their right and they should not be affected one jot (other than their own risk). No one has ever criticised people for not getting the flu jab - ever (I know its not flu, but the principle is the same, the flu jab still cuts transmission to others).

You're right about them being blamed by the government when restrictions return in the winter. That will happen. And unfortunately people will join in with that blame, creating a divisive poisonous situation. Its horrible. People should have it if they want it, and leave people be if they don't.

Those criticising an individual's choice are getting drawn into a poisonous divisive situation, and I won't have any part of it. Its horrible, and its going to get worse IMO. I know plenty of folks who won't have it, and it is their fundamental right.

I think in years to come people having a go at others for not having a vaccine will be ashamed of what they said.

Edit: Shabby I have just read your follow up post and realised your intention was not to have a go at people. I agree with your post.

I do however think the media and government, as usual, are enjoying playing divide and rule with this, whipping people up into having a go at those who don't want the vaccine.
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#6
I suspect you've misread mine as well bb, people absolutely have the right to choose and I don't see anyone here criticising the individuals choice. There is one part of your bracketed line that they do have to also consider and that is the higher risk of spreading covid which could lead to someone else's death - currently I'm not seeing an issue but as with everything in this pandemic we cannot let our guard down.

As it stands I do think we will get to very near to or even above the 90% of adults vaccinated and this won't be an issue.

The highlighted line of mine is just a reality, whatever the morality of it is, society will make judgements on people that haven't had the vaccine if it gets out of control again and the government will use that because it will muddy the waters of their actions. I personally won't be doing that and from a personal point of view my 24 year old daughter is saying that she probably won't have the vaccine, but as a parent I have learned over time to see what happens because minds get changed.
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#7
(05-21-2021, 01:34 PM)baggy1 Wrote: I suspect you've misread mine as well bb, people absolutely have the right to choose and I don't see anyone here criticising the individuals choice. There is one part of your bracketed line that they do have to also consider and that is the higher risk of spreading covid which could lead to someone else's death - currently I'm not seeing an issue but as with everything in this pandemic we cannot let our guard down.

As it stands I do think we will get to very near to or even above the 90% of adults vaccinated and this won't be an issue.

The highlighted line of mine is just a reality, whatever the morality of it is, society will make judgements on people that haven't had the vaccine if it gets out of control again and the government will use that because it will muddy the waters of their actions. I personally won't be doing that and from a personal point of view my 24 year old daughter is saying that she probably won't have the vaccine, but as a parent I have learned over time to see what happens because minds get changed.

I agree that take up is very high, and a little higher than I expected in the younger age groups tbh. It should be fine, given 98-99% of hospitalisations were in the over 50s.

I agree that some in society will make judgments, and I don't like the way they're being egged on by the media/press. I'm aware that Dan Hodges, of the Daily Mail (should we be surprised?!!), is doing exactly that at present - stoking up people.

And I honestly think in years to come those same people will be ashamed of the way they are labelling and criticising others for their choice.

But sorry I didn't mean you were doing so. I also agree that many will change their mind in time (some just want to see a few months more data on the vaccine, for example).
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#8
(05-21-2021, 06:33 AM)Shabby Russian Wrote: with people who refuse to join vaccination programmes?
I  do not care about them its there choice  but please let the ones that did  have the 2 vacs  go out and let them live there life 
as normal as possible.
Am i right in saying in america now if you have had the jabs they are allowed to meet up freely with no restrictions
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#9
I'm not the best to ask.

I think anti-vaxxers as a whole should be executed, alongside all the other crazy conspiracy nutcases.

Seriously though, ban them from public spaces and using public services.
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#10
I'm more in agreement with B1 and BB. If people don't want the vaccine for their own reasons then we have to accept that. There are genuine concerns with what is basically a new formula and we have to understand that. FWIW, I have my 2nd one due in a fortnight, I'm not over the moon with it, I simply see no other realistic alternative.
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