EU's Chucked Its Dollies

[Protheroe]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021...-eu-tanker

Not my words. Imagine the other areas we could be "like a speedboat"...

[Borin' Baggie]

I hope so too as the only way to fix that is to join the single market or customs union.

“Politics is the art of the possible, the attainable — the art of the next best”

― Otto von Bismarck

The UK joining the single market is attainable. Don't even need to join the EU. And it's certainly the next best against EU membership. Though I wouldn't expect someone so invested into the protectionist and bureaucratic ideology of hard Brexit to understand.

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https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021...-eu-tanker

Not my words. Imagine the other areas we could be "like a speedboat"...

We could have been a speedboat on vaccines as an EU member, as has already been pointed out to you. This has nothing to do with Brexit.

[baggy1]

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We could have been a speedboat on vaccines as an EU member, as has already been pointed out to you. This has nothing to do with Brexit.

Was about to say the same BB, it highlights how binary Proths politics are on the matter.

[Protheroe]

We could have been a speedboat on vaccines as an EU member, as has already been pointed out to you. This has nothing to do with Brexit.

<Yawn>

You keep making this assertion.

Look, UVDL has just spelled out the best reason for not being in the EU; the UK can react to ANY event or ANY opportunity with velocity rather than being held back by the school spanner. In the words she's used she's advanced the cause of Brexit far more than any British politician.

[Protheroe]

Though I wouldn't expect someone so invested into the protectionist and bureaucratic ideology of hard Brexit to understand.

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That's the funniest thing I've read so far this year.

[Borin' Baggie]

Though I wouldn't expect someone so invested into the protectionist and bureaucratic ideology of hard Brexit to understand.

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That's the funniest thing I've read so far this year.

Glad to know the NTBs and masses of paperwork you voted for are funny.

There's a reason why the EU and single market have been championed by liberals and despised by protectionist conservatives and socialists.

[Borin' Baggie]

We could have been a speedboat on vaccines as an EU member, as has already been pointed out to you. This has nothing to do with Brexit.

<Yawn>

You keep making this assertion.

Look, UVDL has just spelled out the best reason for not being in the EU; the UK can react to ANY event or ANY opportunity with velocity rather than being held back by the school spanner. In the words she's used she's advanced the cause of Brexit far more than any British politician.

Look, there are zero EU mechanisms that block our vaccine procurement programme and vaccine approval schedule. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Absolutely none. The inflexibility of the Commission is irrelevant as it doesn't apply as a member or as a third country.

[Protheroe]

The inflexibility of the Commission is irrelevant as it doesn't apply as a member or as a third country.

It may not "apply" in principle, but the net effect to EU countries is that it has applied in practice. Procurement is as fast as the slowest nation.

That is a fact. Your assertion of the principle is irrelevant.

[Borin' Baggie]

The inflexibility of the Commission is irrelevant as it doesn't apply as a member or as a third country.

It may not "apply" in principle, but the net effect to EU countries is that it has applied in practice. Procurement is as fast as the slowest nation.

That is a fact. Your assertion of the principle is irrelevant.

What is a fact is you deliberately misconstruing the scope of the IVA and the clauses applying to it with an individual nation's procurement independent to anyone else, as was done by the UK and pursued by Germany and Hungary with no challenge externally or internally to the means. This isn't "in principle", it's evidenced by real world examples and their outcomes. You're severely overestimating the power that the Commission holds over member states, the balance of power is with the Council and the governments of the member states.

Your comparison is irrelevant, it doesn't apply in any case whatsoever. If you want to compare even more examples, how has being independent of the Commission helped the EFTA nations?

[Bortolazzi's Barnet]

The EU imposed a 3rd country export ban on vaccines and tries to illegally implement a border across Ireland, both out of malice. Not only was the Taoiseach not consulted on this proposed border, he wasn't even informed. The Regulation the EU published which purported to impose this border was removed because, not only did it not adhere to the Art 7 procedure, it didn't even meet the conditions for use in Art 16 itself.

All that whining the EU was doing about how much they valued peace in Ireland, how much they respect the GFA. Just more EU/remain lies.

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The UK being exposed to EU politicking by being outside the Customs Union doesn't validate their aggressive behaviour and nor does it validate the Commission's fuck up with negotiations.

I'm not validating their behaviour. It is entirely predictable and even more so given that La Pen is a real threat to Macron. The broader point is this, if we were in the EU, would they be able to put up export controls? I think not. And when we signed that deal, we were actually in the EU. It's very sad that it's come to this but all entirely predictable. We've been out of the EU for about 4 weeks and we now have our first trade conflict. I expect this to blow over as it seems like lots of vaccine will become available. However, I expect similar trade disputes, like this, to arise in the future. All completely needless and it makes everyone worse off.

Still, at least the fish are happy.

Er, no, we left the EU on 31st January 2020 so we were not still in the EU when we signed the contract.

We were in transition. Had we been EU members we may well have faced enforcement action. I think the fact we were in negotiations over the trade deal prevented the EU from seeking to take any remedial action as it would hardly have boosted the trade talks. Hungary has gone it alone and sourced its own vaccine, we will see if its pleas of emergency prevent any legal sanctions being imposed.

"The broader point is this, if we were in the EU, would they be able to put up export controls? I think not." That isn't the 'broader point' at all. The EU banned exports and illegally tried to impose an Irish border out of spite. Nice club you want to be a part of. And if we were still in it we'd be suffering from the same paucity of vaccine as the EU is.

THOSE are the broader points.

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Brexit and the truth 

It’s true, it’s true I tell you!

And yet none of you had the intellectual acuity to identify the lies from the remain campaign.