EU's Chucked Its Dollies

[Protheroe]

we have rolled the dice to gain what exactly?

This is why it's pointless debating the issue with you any further. Your entire view is through the prism of loss, it's an entirely understandable psychological phenomenon - I get it, I really do.

It's pointless talking about the margin of victory when the decision to leave has been endorsed in every Parliamentary (and European) election since. It no longer matters what the margin was, and madness is the only destination in fighting yesterday's battles.

What have we gained? Simple. We have recovered the democratic deficit we'd lost progressively since 1973. You can already see the Tory backbenches flexing this recovered democratic brio whether the issues at hand are directly related to the EU or not. Surely that's a good thing.

We have recovered the ability to act on a more agile basis as illustrated by the accelerated deployment of the Covid vaccine, the benefit of this agility will become all the more clearer as the years progress not least in the regulation and tax treatment of financial services, FinTech, GM technology etc.

I sense some who remain with their arses in their hands about leaving the EU have the same worldview as those Peter Shore talked about in that Oxford Union debate; that Britain is somehow too small, too timid and too daft to make it's own way in the world. As a liberal positivist I think that view is as fatalistic as it is deranged.

You're right to point out some of the downsides, but none of these are terminal, some will be transitory, others will be addressed through dialogue, a few never will be. That's life.

[baggy1]

Fair enough, and as much as I argue the toss on here I have to get on with it in real life because it's what you do. It has bought extra complications and costs to the business that I work for and lot's of headaches and understanding of rules in my role (and even worse having to explain them to Americans) and by default that means the business wants to know the risks (probably explaining my view on the downsides with the focus I have to give them).

I can't see that I will personally be too damaged as I have nearly got to the end of my career but I do hope that my kids opportunities aren't damaged, who knows.

[Protheroe]

I do hope that my kids opportunities aren't damaged, who knows.

There is no reason whatsoever why your or my kids' opportunities ought to be damaged.

[baggy1]

I do hope that my kids opportunities aren't damaged, who knows.

There is no reason whatsoever why your or my kids' opportunities ought to be damaged.

Apart from the ability to work for European firms in country, or live there freely as they could do before. Both my kids are doing surprisingly well (based on my knowledge of their motivation to get out of their pits when they lived at home) in their respective companies and look like getting the opportunity to travel, my daughter would be US so no issue there, but my lad works for a large German logistics company and is doing well.

[Protheroe]

I do hope that my kids opportunities aren't damaged, who knows.

There is no reason whatsoever why your or my kids' opportunities ought to be damaged.

Apart from the ability to work for European firms in country, or live there freely as they could do before. Both my kids are doing surprisingly well (based on my knowledge of their motivation to get out of their pits when they lived at home) in their respective companies and look like getting the opportunity to travel, my daughter would be US so no issue there, but my lad works for a large German logistics company and is doing well.

I think most concerns in that respect are massively overblown. Not being in a poltical union didn't stop Mrs P from studying and working in the US in the 1990s. If anyone seeking to live or work abroad is put off by a little paperwork then they have't experienced the French Tax Code or the Spanish legal "system".

[baggy1]

I do hope that my kids opportunities aren't damaged, who knows.

There is no reason whatsoever why your or my kids' opportunities ought to be damaged.

Apart from the ability to work for European firms in country, or live there freely as they could do before. Both my kids are doing surprisingly well (based on my knowledge of their motivation to get out of their pits when they lived at home) in their respective companies and look like getting the opportunity to travel, my daughter would be US so no issue there, but my lad works for a large German logistics company and is doing well.

I think most concerns in that respect are massively overblown. Not being in a poltical union didn't stop Mrs P from studying and working in the US in the 1990s. If anyone seeking to live or work abroad is put off by a little paperwork then they have't experienced the French Tax Code or the Spanish legal "system".

And that is where the lack of subject knowledge that you have shows up why you weren't bothered about being part of the EU, there was no benefit to you. I'm not talking about finishing their studying and hanging around for a job in a coffee shop, doing a bit of nannying or working in a ski chalet, I'm talking about professional secondments as part of multi national organisations which involves rules around residency and taxation. By us putting up the barriers it creates further complications and hurdles that have to be overcome.

[hudds]

I am still fucking working after 13 hours and can barely fucking see straight with the Brexshit fucking shitshow for my clients.  In the right here, right now world, I have clients in absolute despair for what ought to be simple movements and laying off staff whilst paying for customs agents IF THEY CAN GET THEM and customs consultancy colleagues burned out and in tears. 

One huge business has come to me today and said they tried and failed with nine Registered Consignors to act as their UK interface agent.  I am setting them up as a principal instead which is a huge fucking pain but it will happen - now working on the explanatory covering letter to an absolutley inadequate HMRC form for registration.

Fuck off with idealogical Brexshit unicorn fantasy.  How much collateral damage and painful suffering just to stand still is enough for you zealots??  Just fuck right off.

[Derek Hardballs]

Fuck business!

[Jack Halford]

I do hope that my kids opportunities aren't damaged, who knows.

There is no reason whatsoever why your or my kids' opportunities ought to be damaged.

Apart from the ability to work for European firms in country, or live there freely as they could do before. Both my kids are doing surprisingly well (based on my knowledge of their motivation to get out of their pits when they lived at home) in their respective companies and look like getting the opportunity to travel, my daughter would be US so no issue there, but my lad works for a large German logistics company and is doing well.

I think most concerns in that respect are massively overblown. Not being in a poltical union didn't stop Mrs P from studying and working in the US in the 1990s. If anyone seeking to live or work abroad is put off by a little paperwork then they have't experienced the French Tax Code or the Spanish legal "system".

And that is where the lack of subject knowledge that you have shows up why you weren't bothered about being part of the EU, there was no benefit to you. I'm not talking about finishing their studying and hanging around for a job in a coffee shop, doing a bit of nannying or working in a ski chalet, I'm talking about professional secondments as part of multi national organisations which involves rules around residency and taxation. By us putting up the barriers it creates further complications and hurdles that have to be overcome.

Baggy1 - this is why multi national organisations employ international lawyers to advise on those rules and to comply with them
It’s working both ways in and out. It won’t stop those secondments

[Protheroe]

I'm talking about professional secondments as part of multi national organisations which involves rules around residency and taxation. By us putting up the barriers it creates further complications and hurdles that have to be overcome.

That's also what I'm talking about. Companies will negotiate barriers and hurdles to place talent in the right place. It's what they do.

My work is with financial, legal & professional services firms who in general have talent from around the world placed around the world (obviously including hundreds of thousands of non-EU staff in London). A bit of paperwork never stopped anyone doing anything.

Hudds' issues are far more fundamental and will be addressed in the coming months. I hope this isn't too late, but it exposes the myth that we were in any form of "Transition Period" during 2020. The government owes these traders a resolution.