ItalExit
#1
Starting campaigning on 23rd July.

You'll be pleased to hear that they will be taking advice from Nigel Farage. If anything, he was successful in this type of campaigning. 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/131...Farage/amp
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#2
Italy have had their budgets questioned / blocked a few times - but presumably stand to gain from the EU billion Euro rescue package - though still dispute over that. Ireland apparently gain 2 billion, but have to pay 15 billion in I read on one report... all sounds a bit iffy considering how badly Ireland was treated in the bank bail out crisis (had to pay for it all - though it saved many European banks from contagion outside of Ireland, and the EU had insisted on it... still grinds my gears, especially the lies and failure to co-operate with the Irish tribunal on the banks)
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#3
Considering the bailout the EU just gave them this would be absolutely moronic. I would guess Nexit is more likely now
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#4
(07-28-2020, 08:40 PM)Sliced Wrote: Considering the bailout the EU just gave them this would be absolutely moronic. I would guess Nexit is more likely now

You don't need a bailout if you have control of your own currency. Ask Greece, and indeed Italy about the 2008 financial crisis.
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#5
(07-29-2020, 08:56 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(07-28-2020, 08:40 PM)Sliced Wrote: Considering the bailout the EU just gave them this would be absolutely moronic. I would guess Nexit is more likely now

You don't need a bailout if you have control of your own currency. Ask Greece, and indeed Italy about the 2008 financial crisis.

I don't know what your point is here, both Italy and Greece were using the Euro in 2008. I'm talking about how Italy has reacted to the EU recovery deal.

Italy was in a horrendous financial position pre-Covid. Now it's absolute chaos over there with the job market etc. The general feeling is one of appreciation for the EU recovery deal as it's a glimmer of hope that they may be able to find some way of getting back on track.

In the past couple of weeks pro-EU feelings in Italy have increased, not decreased. As I say it's the wealthier countries, such as the Netherlands and Denmark, who were resistant to the terms of the EU recovery deal that are probably feeling a bit happy with the EU at the moment.
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#6
(07-30-2020, 07:57 AM)Sliced Wrote:
(07-29-2020, 08:56 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(07-28-2020, 08:40 PM)Sliced Wrote: Considering the bailout the EU just gave them this would be absolutely moronic. I would guess Nexit is more likely now

You don't need a bailout if you have control of your own currency. Ask Greece, and indeed Italy about the 2008 financial crisis.

I don't know what your point is here, both Italy and Greece were using the Euro in 2008. I'm talking about how Italy has reacted to the EU recovery deal.

Italy was in a horrendous financial position pre-Covid. Now it's absolute chaos over there with the job market etc. The general feeling is one of appreciation for the EU recovery deal as it's a glimmer of hope that they may be able to find some way of getting back on track.

In the past couple of weeks pro-EU feelings in Italy have increased, not decreased. As I say it's the wealthier countries, such as the Netherlands and Denmark, who were resistant to the terms of the EU recovery deal that are probably feeling a bit happy with the EU at the moment.

No, you don't know what my point is do you?

Italy and Greece are trapped in a death spiral because of the Euro. There is no prospect of "getting back on track" to anything other than sclerotic growth, high youth unemployment and chronic underinvestment. Whilst they're within the currency union they are client states to an increasingly hostile northern Europe.

The Euro, and by definition the entire European project is under existential threat as southern states further decouple from northern states. It's ony a matter of time before the Euro collapses like every currency union before it. Italy & Greece should have defaulted and left in 2008/09.
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#7
(07-30-2020, 08:52 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 07:57 AM)Sliced Wrote:
(07-29-2020, 08:56 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(07-28-2020, 08:40 PM)Sliced Wrote: Considering the bailout the EU just gave them this would be absolutely moronic. I would guess Nexit is more likely now

You don't need a bailout if you have control of your own currency. Ask Greece, and indeed Italy about the 2008 financial crisis.

I don't know what your point is here, both Italy and Greece were using the Euro in 2008. I'm talking about how Italy has reacted to the EU recovery deal.

Italy was in a horrendous financial position pre-Covid. Now it's absolute chaos over there with the job market etc. The general feeling is one of appreciation for the EU recovery deal as it's a glimmer of hope that they may be able to find some way of getting back on track.

In the past couple of weeks pro-EU feelings in Italy have increased, not decreased. As I say it's the wealthier countries, such as the Netherlands and Denmark, who were resistant to the terms of the EU recovery deal that are probably feeling a bit happy with the EU at the moment.

No, you don't know what my point is do you?

Italy and Greece are trapped in a death spiral because of the Euro. There is no prospect of "getting back on track" to anything other than sclerotic growth, high youth unemployment and chronic underinvestment. Whilst they're within the currency union they are client states to an increasingly hostile northern Europe.

The Euro, and by definition the entire European project is under existential threat as southern states further decouple from northern states. It's ony a matter of time before the Euro collapses like every currency union before it. Italy & Greece should have defaulted and left in 2008/09.

You mean like Sterling and the US$
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#8
No, I didn't know what your point was, I already said that. Maybe it was a poor point, or badly made. Certainly the idea that Italy started going to shit in 2008 is just nonsense. If you look at the economic growth rate over the past 60 years its basically been a straight line down (with a bit of noise). There's nothing in there to suggest that the introduction of the Euro is to cause for this.

When Italy joined it was in trouble, unemployment in Italy between the years of 1992 and 1998 never went below 11%, last year it was at 9.8. After the crash in 2008 unemployment went up, but guess what happened in the UK where we don't have the Euro? The economy took a hit and unemployment went up. Or Turkey, which is outside the EU? The economy took a hit and unemployment went up. Or the USA?......Or (insert pretty much any country name here)
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#9
(07-30-2020, 10:13 AM)baggy1 Wrote: You mean like Sterling and the US$

It may have escaped your notice, but both the US and UK have a political union.

(07-30-2020, 10:27 AM)Sliced Wrote: No, I didn't know what your point was, I already said that. Maybe it was a poor point, or badly made. Certainly the idea that Italy started going to shit in 2008 is just nonsense. If you look at the economic growth rate over the past 60 years its basically been a straight line down (with a bit of noise). There's nothing in there to suggest that the introduction of the Euro is to cause for this.

When Italy joined it was in trouble, unemployment in Italy between the years of 1992 and 1998 never went below 11%, last year it was at 9.8. After the crash in 2008 unemployment went up, but guess what happened in the UK where we don't have the Euro? The economy took a hit and unemployment went up. Or Turkey, which is outside the EU? The economy took a hit and unemployment went up. Or the USA?......Or (insert pretty much any country name here)

None of which has anything to do with the fact that Italy & Greece can only ever regain control of their economies outside of the Euro straitjacket. That's a FACT.
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#10
(07-30-2020, 11:11 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 10:13 AM)baggy1 Wrote: You mean like Sterling and the US$

It may have escaped your notice, but both the US and UK have a political union.


As with nothing escaping your notice whereby the statement you made had nothing to do with political unions. But as ever, manoeuvre yourself to another position to avoid saying "sorry I wasn't clear in my first point". 

And don't want to piss on your chips but the US haven't always had a political union since the introduction of the $. Don't worry about thanking me, I'll just take it as read.

(07-30-2020, 11:11 AM)Protheroe Wrote:
(07-30-2020, 10:27 AM)Sliced Wrote: No, I didn't know what your point was, I already said that. Maybe it was a poor point, or badly made. Certainly the idea that Italy started going to shit in 2008 is just nonsense. If you look at the economic growth rate over the past 60 years its basically been a straight line down (with a bit of noise). There's nothing in there to suggest that the introduction of the Euro is to cause for this.

When Italy joined it was in trouble, unemployment in Italy between the years of 1992 and 1998 never went below 11%, last year it was at 9.8. After the crash in 2008 unemployment went up, but guess what happened in the UK where we don't have the Euro? The economy took a hit and unemployment went up. Or Turkey, which is outside the EU? The economy took a hit and unemployment went up. Or the USA?......Or (insert pretty much any country name here)

None of which has anything to do with the fact that Italy & Greece can only ever regain control of their economies outside of the Euro straitjacket. That's a FACT.

That is actually an opinion unless you are nostradamus
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