Face Masks

[baggy1]

If your mask is not FFP3 with an assigned protection factor (APF) of at least 20 then the virus can get through it and out of it.....never mind facial hair and being fit tested...but I'm sure it will make people feel safer

This. There is plenty of reservation out there amongst Medical professionals who think the only reason for doing this is the Placebo effect it will give to people. 
One went as far as to say it needs to be heavily monitored now because there is as valid an argument that this step will increase infection rates as people use or touch masks incorrectly, passing virus to hands then transferring to objects much more readily. The handling of even fruit and veg in supermarkets then become a prime transfer risk - and gloves won't make any difference because they also make a false sense of security and spread the virus anyway.

The advice given by the Government has been mixed and in some cases very poor or too late but is it surprising when a thread like this shows that so many people out there are prepared to believe media based twaddle and not do some proper research themselves. 

I will wear one and do it correctly but do I think it will make a major positive difference - No I don't.

If it makes any positive difference then it is worthwhile, and with hand washing, distancing where possible and other controls in place then it will be worth it. This shouldn't even be being discussed now, it should have been introduced when Johnson wash singing happy birthday and washing his hands, it was always a no-brainer. Will it cure covid - No; will it stop the spread completely - No; will it reduce the spread - probably, then its worth it.

[Swagbaggie]

If your mask is not FFP3 with an assigned protection factor (APF) of at least 20 then the virus can get through it and out of it.....never mind facial hair and being fit tested...but I'm sure it will make people feel safer

This. There is plenty of reservation out there amongst Medical professionals who think the only reason for doing this is the Placebo effect it will give to people. 
One went as far as to say it needs to be heavily monitored now because there is as valid an argument that this step will increase infection rates as people use or touch masks incorrectly, passing virus to hands then transferring to objects much more readily. The handling of even fruit and veg in supermarkets then become a prime transfer risk - and gloves won't make any difference because they also make a false sense of security and spread the virus anyway.

The advice given by the Government has been mixed and in some cases very poor or too late but is it surprising when a thread like this shows that so many people out there are prepared to believe media based twaddle and not do some proper research themselves. 

I will wear one and do it correctly but do I think it will make a major positive difference - No I don't.

If it makes any positive difference then it is worthwhile, and with hand washing, distancing where possible and other controls in place then it will be worth it. This shouldn't even be being discussed now, it should have been introduced when Johnson wash singing happy birthday and washing his hands, it was always a no-brainer. Will it cure covid - No; will it stop the spread completely - No; will it reduce the spread - probably, then its worth it.

Until the next lot of studies show that they have in fact added to the rate of infection, as I discussed, and you and the group of 'hindsighters' will be the first to start moaning.

[baggy1]

If your mask is not FFP3 with an assigned protection factor (APF) of at least 20 then the virus can get through it and out of it.....never mind facial hair and being fit tested...but I'm sure it will make people feel safer

This. There is plenty of reservation out there amongst Medical professionals who think the only reason for doing this is the Placebo effect it will give to people. 
One went as far as to say it needs to be heavily monitored now because there is as valid an argument that this step will increase infection rates as people use or touch masks incorrectly, passing virus to hands then transferring to objects much more readily. The handling of even fruit and veg in supermarkets then become a prime transfer risk - and gloves won't make any difference because they also make a false sense of security and spread the virus anyway.

The advice given by the Government has been mixed and in some cases very poor or too late but is it surprising when a thread like this shows that so many people out there are prepared to believe media based twaddle and not do some proper research themselves. 

I will wear one and do it correctly but do I think it will make a major positive difference - No I don't.

If it makes any positive difference then it is worthwhile, and with hand washing, distancing where possible and other controls in place then it will be worth it. This shouldn't even be being discussed now, it should have been introduced when Johnson wash singing happy birthday and washing his hands, it was always a no-brainer. Will it cure covid - No; will it stop the spread completely - No; will it reduce the spread - probably, then its worth it.

Until the next lot of studies show that they have in fact added to the rate of infection, as I discussed, and you and the group of 'hindsighters' will be the first to start moaning.

Hindsighters? are you saying that it will make a negative difference now then, or just hedging your bets. I've been pushing for tighter controls for months (take a look at the UK covid death toll thread on the echo chamber), we have 65k excess deaths and there are people saying that I can't be bothered, and that it hasn't been proved and suchlike.

Look at it in another way - I agree with your points about misuse and potential placebo, but if used properly with the proper guidance and if it had been completed in a timely manner then we could have had more freedom by now and less deaths. Strong clear message from the govt at an early stage and we wouldn't even be discussing this now.

[Morley]

Potentially makes the infection rates worse...

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006...f_ipsecsha

[Swagbaggie]

Potentially makes the infection rates worse...

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006...f_ipsecsha

Thank you Morley. There is another one I read from Liverpool and one from a Uni at Bologna too. Much the same - not proven yet but needs to be monitored.
We have a  department good at that!

[baggy1]

Potentially makes the infection rates worse...

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006...f_ipsecsha

2015 report in healthcare workers and including re-used cloth masks compared with surgical masks. The research does not condone the health workers working without a mask. What was Swag saying about not doing the research FFS.

---

Potentially makes the infection rates worse...

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006...f_ipsecsha

Thank you Morley. There is another one I read from Liverpool and one from a Uni at Bologna too. Much the same - not proven yet but needs to be monitored.
We have a  department good at that!

You were just saying about not doing the research and then you take this post on face value without reading the detail. FFS man

[Derek Hardballs]

BMA
Other reports brought together

[Swagbaggie]

If your mask is not FFP3 with an assigned protection factor (APF) of at least 20 then the virus can get through it and out of it.....never mind facial hair and being fit tested...but I'm sure it will make people feel safer

This. There is plenty of reservation out there amongst Medical professionals who think the only reason for doing this is the Placebo effect it will give to people. 
One went as far as to say it needs to be heavily monitored now because there is as valid an argument that this step will increase infection rates as people use or touch masks incorrectly, passing virus to hands then transferring to objects much more readily. The handling of even fruit and veg in supermarkets then become a prime transfer risk - and gloves won't make any difference because they also make a false sense of security and spread the virus anyway.

The advice given by the Government has been mixed and in some cases very poor or too late but is it surprising when a thread like this shows that so many people out there are prepared to believe media based twaddle and not do some proper research themselves. 

I will wear one and do it correctly but do I think it will make a major positive difference - No I don't.

If it makes any positive difference then it is worthwhile, and with hand washing, distancing where possible and other controls in place then it will be worth it. This shouldn't even be being discussed now, it should have been introduced when Johnson wash singing happy birthday and washing his hands, it was always a no-brainer. Will it cure covid - No; will it stop the spread completely - No; will it reduce the spread - probably, then its worth it.

Until the next lot of studies show that they have in fact added to the rate of infection, as I discussed, and you and the group of 'hindsighters' will be the first to start moaning.

Hindsighters? are you saying that it will make a negative difference now then, or just hedging your bets. I've been pushing for tighter controls for months (take a look at the UK covid death toll thread on the echo chamber), we have 65k excess deaths and there are people saying that I can't be bothered, and that it hasn't been proved and such like.

Look at it in another way - I agree with your points about misuse and potential placebo, but if used properly with the proper guidance and if it had been completed in a timely manner then we could have had more freedom by now and less deaths. Strong clear message from the govt at an early stage and we wouldn't even be discussing this now.

You will find a thread much earlier than that on this forum that will give you my views on the potential threat and death rate of Covid and the direct result on our senior citizens. I am sure you will find it with ease and whilst reading it take note of the reaction of those who refused to accept the dire situation that was on our way and so obvious.  This is the same people who are crying out for the next big remedy now and criticising all and sundry for not doing enough when all along the warnings were there and the opportunity to take matters into their own hands was there.
Hindsighter is the perfect description.

[Morley]

Potentially makes the infection rates worse...

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006...f_ipsecsha

2015 report in healthcare workers and including re-used cloth masks compared with surgical masks. The research does not condone the health workers working without a mask. What was Swag saying about not doing the research FFS.

---

Potentially makes the infection rates worse...

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006...f_ipsecsha

Thank you Morley. There is another one I read from Liverpool and one from a Uni at Bologna too. Much the same - not proven yet but needs to be monitored.
We have a  department good at that!

You were just saying about not doing the research and then you take this post on face value without reading the detail. FFS man

" including re-used cloth masks"

Which is how most folk will use their cloth masks.

[baggy1]

Potentially makes the infection rates worse...

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006...f_ipsecsha

2015 report in healthcare workers and including re-used cloth masks compared with surgical masks. The research does not condone the health workers working without a mask. What was Swag saying about not doing the research FFS.

---

Potentially makes the infection rates worse...

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006...f_ipsecsha

Thank you Morley. There is another one I read from Liverpool and one from a Uni at Bologna too. Much the same - not proven yet but needs to be monitored.
We have a  department good at that!

You were just saying about not doing the research and then you take this post on face value without reading the detail. FFS man

" including re-used cloth masks"

Which is how most folk will use their cloth masks.

The report was on healthcare workers in infectious wards, not on the streets. And also, give instructions to wash them after use, I don't know go mad and get them to buy two or even more. How will we ever solve this problem 

---

This. There is plenty of reservation out there amongst Medical professionals who think the only reason for doing this is the Placebo effect it will give to people. 
One went as far as to say it needs to be heavily monitored now because there is as valid an argument that this step will increase infection rates as people use or touch masks incorrectly, passing virus to hands then transferring to objects much more readily. The handling of even fruit and veg in supermarkets then become a prime transfer risk - and gloves won't make any difference because they also make a false sense of security and spread the virus anyway.

The advice given by the Government has been mixed and in some cases very poor or too late but is it surprising when a thread like this shows that so many people out there are prepared to believe media based twaddle and not do some proper research themselves. 

I will wear one and do it correctly but do I think it will make a major positive difference - No I don't.

If it makes any positive difference then it is worthwhile, and with hand washing, distancing where possible and other controls in place then it will be worth it. This shouldn't even be being discussed now, it should have been introduced when Johnson wash singing happy birthday and washing his hands, it was always a no-brainer. Will it cure covid - No; will it stop the spread completely - No; will it reduce the spread - probably, then its worth it.

Until the next lot of studies show that they have in fact added to the rate of infection, as I discussed, and you and the group of 'hindsighters' will be the first to start moaning.

Hindsighters? are you saying that it will make a negative difference now then, or just hedging your bets. I've been pushing for tighter controls for months (take a look at the UK covid death toll thread on the echo chamber), we have 65k excess deaths and there are people saying that I can't be bothered, and that it hasn't been proved and such like.

Look at it in another way - I agree with your points about misuse and potential placebo, but if used properly with the proper guidance and if it had been completed in a timely manner then we could have had more freedom by now and less deaths. Strong clear message from the govt at an early stage and we wouldn't even be discussing this now.

You will find a thread much earlier than that on this forum that will give you my views on the potential threat and death rate of Covid and the direct result on our senior citizens. I am sure you will find it with ease and whilst reading it take note of the reaction of those who refused to accept the dire situation that was on our way and so obvious.  This is the same people who are crying out for the next big remedy now and criticising all and sundry for not doing enough when all along the warnings were there and the opportunity to take matters into their own hands was there.
Hindsighter is the perfect description.

You seem to have lumped me in with that group of 'hindsighters' - I'm not suggesting that you aren't the medical sage that you make out to be, I'm just a bit confused why you think I have not been highlighting the issues from early on.

---

I haven't read it fully because I am on my phone but from what I can see is it is not conclusive in any direction and will need to be watched much as I said.
I am not arguing against the use of the coverings. 
I am saying that there is a variation in evidence that they will work at the moment and it may be that they may increase the I.R. for the reasons I stated.
If and when that happens lets see what the response is then.
Of course I will comply with the regulations but I put much more faith in washing hands/sanitising and distancing and I believe masks will reduce that in others.
Being a 'kept' man I run the home including doing the family grocery shop. That requires 2.5 - 3 hours in two stores every week. There are 2 main groups that I have seen that totally ignore the opportunities to sanitise and distance.
Those in the 'Senior' group of our population and those wearing face masks.
A 3 layer mask/or cloth covering is not going to provide the 'other' shopper a jot of protection when someone pushes passed them but it is very likely to embolden the wearers with a false sense of security IMO.

Yet, you dismiss others earlier on for not reading the detail.

And you might be surprised but I agree with what you are saying and stress that we need to have proper guidance, more in hope than expectation from the muppets in charge.
The bit that surprises me is the need for you to have a go at me as if I've just started speaking up.