UK Covid death toll

[baggy1]

Yep useless and Starmer just joined them.

I mean they published https://labour.org.uk/press/labour-analy...ion-rates/

and now he calls for a national lockdown. I mean how poor a decision making process is that.

If it doesn't work he will just blame the scientist

What would you suggest LIQ, clearly the current approach isn't working. People can't be trusted to do the right thing if we let it rip - did you see Liverpool last night? So what other options are there?

[JOK]

Every one of those people in the massed crowds in Liverpool is an individual but we can’t blame individuals apparently.

[The liquidator]

Personally I would lockdown all universities if not send them home..... They should just have a year off the government take a hit on the 9 grand and bring them back next year..... Its not a ideal situation and it's unfair on the good students but they simply can't be trusted. They are not going to furloghed again whatever happens so they have to try and keep hospitality open as much as possible.

The selfish picks are to blame for this when the government are to blame I will say it like care homes etc.... People need to take more responsibility if they fail to there will be a lockdown but the concequences I fear will wipe hospitality off the face of the cities.

Shops have suffered and are not opening and is online the same will happen to food etc say goodbye to the local pub

[billybassett]

You're not honestly blaming students are you Mr Liq? Come on now.

I'd encourage all students to go out there and mingle en masse asap then go back to their dorms for a week and be done with it. Quicker it goes through the population the better.

Covid is a self limiting infection. Everywhere there have been spikes/intense infection it is literally on the way out. Gone. In precisely zero occasions has there been a large outbreak right on top of a previous one. The worst thing now would be to lockdown again. Smell the science

[The liquidator]

So you think it's OK for them to spread it and some poor fucker gets a bad one and ends up on a ventilor..... Its OK to say I'm all right Jack.

[billybassett]

So you think it's OK for them to spread it and some poor fucker gets a bad one and ends up on a ventilor..... Its OK to say I'm all right Jack.

I'm saying, as hard as it is, that's going to happen anyway to some poor fucker - like it happens each year with flu. All you're actually doing is delaying the inevitable and at the same time killing non-covid patients and businesses along the way. The absolute worst of both worlds.

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Also Liq: Remember the BLM rallies and Extinction Rebellion mass gatherings - bigger than merseyside? Can't remember if there was the same vitriol on here about those guys meeting in London? And guess what no spike in infections there....

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Final one on this young people bollocks - I guess you're not bothered about the 1100 people who've been in the London Palladium all week either.

[Ted Maul]

 Its OK to say I'm all right Jack.

There's something I never thought I'd see.

[Tom Joad]

So you think it's OK for them to spread it and some poor fucker gets a bad one and ends up on a ventilor..... Its OK to say I'm all right Jack.

I'm saying, as hard as it is, that's going to happen anyway to some poor fucker - like it happens each year with flu. All you're actually doing is delaying the inevitable and at the same time killing non-covid patients and businesses along the way. The absolute worst of both worlds.

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Also Liq: Remember the BLM rallies and Extinction Rebellion mass gatherings - bigger than merseyside? Can't remember if there was the same vitriol on here about those guys meeting in London? And guess what no spike in infections there....

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Final one on this young people bollocks - I guess you're not bothered about the 1100 people who've been in the London Palladium all week either.

 I won't pretend I know the answers and admit I'm pretty much basing my ideas on a gut feeling. This is what I don't understand though, BillyB; To let the virus run it's course would overwhelm the NHS, the one thing Boris managed to avoid early summer. In turn this would exclude the non Covid patients as well, the potential cancer patients, heart attack, stroke victims. Are you saying that with little, no, or just basic measures, we could just let this virus take it's course and hospitals won't be rammed to capacity and beyond?  If so, I'm in.
My problem with that is that it looks like an easy answer for now,  and like anything that looks to good to be true...….Genuine question BTW.

[Protheroe]

You're missing the point - it matters not what age they die at - what matters is that if you have considerable excess deaths, then you also have considerable excess hospital admissions, ICU requirements and staff to man that.

As we don't even have enough staff under normal circumstance - then staff have to be taken from their normal duties to care for the excess hospital admissions and the dying. The result - younger people requiring treatment have their appointments delayed.

I'm not missing the point, I'm referring to another point; There are also considerable excess deaths at home NOT due to Covid - 28,000 in fact. That's more than in hospitals & care homes put together that ARE due to Covid (ONS).



Quantitatively these deaths are being both displaced from hospital and from conditions that could have been alleviated by hospital treatment that patients were either unwilling or unable to have. Look at this guy's face - his name is Adrian and he could be one of us on here:



Adrian had bowel cancer. He responded well to chemo - so well that his doctors scheduled a life-saving operation to remove a large part of his liver. It was due in April. Then came lockdown, then the op was cancelled. Adrian’s cancer is now terminal.

Adrian is one of thousands of cancer patients whose care has been affected by lockdown. Doctors expect a surge in cancer deaths in the coming months and years. It is another dimension of what is happening beneath the surface of the Covid 19 data.

Qualitatively, the data says nothing abut how these people died or will die - I know how lucky we were to get my Mum into a hospice, most people are not so fortunate.

Hospice's are getting referrals in later and patients are dying sooner. Most are dying at home, tended to by family with no medical training.

We need to have a serious conversation about what we're doing to ourselves. We need to have a serious conversation with all those at risk about Advanced Decisions. Unless there is stricter isolation of the aged & infirm we risk cluttering up the NHS with them at a devastating cost to the rest of society who will be picking up the pieces for decades to come.

[baggy1]

The graph you have put up of deaths at home includes covid deaths doesn't it?

And it doesn't really tell us much other than people died at home rather than in hospitals, it doesn't give us a breakdown of the ages (maybe old folk who would have died in hospital stayed at home instead).

I agree entirely about the missed operations and diagnoses but from what I understand hospitals are now operating with covid and non-covid areas. Backlogs were already an issue due to underfunding, covid has, unexpectedly, made it worse.