Student Loans

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

People with better soft skills are more likely to be employed

Absolutely. And you don’t HAVE to go to uni to get those but there are tons of kids turning to adults who massively need that. When I look at some of my daughters housemates these three years will be absolutely essential to what they become capable of contributing in that sphere.

It doesn’t surprise me that right leaning thinkers don’t get it.

I get it all right. But what is the difference between going to University and getting a job in terms of growing up? It's not a question of being right leaning FFS.

I fucked up my A levels first time round because of girls, booze and house music. Fuck me I grew up a lot in the couple of years I went to work and study before going to Sheffield.

The world does not owe you a living whilst you grow up. You can still have fun making all sorts of mistakes, I know I did.

If you don’t know the answer to that then you don’t get it.

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Agree with baggy1 about FE. I’ve done loads of later learning and it’s been far more useful when it’s actually a choice rather than a treadmill

[Borin' Baggie]

People with better soft skills are more likely to be employed

Absolutely. And you don’t HAVE to go to uni to get those but there are tons of kids turning to adults who massively need that. When I look at some of my daughters housemates these three years will be absolutely essential to what they become capable of contributing in that sphere.

It doesn’t surprise me that right leaning thinkers don’t get it.

I get it all right. But what is the difference between going to University and getting a job in terms of growing up? It's not a question of being right leaning FFS.

I fucked up my A levels first time round because of girls, booze and house music. Fuck me I grew up a lot in the couple of years I went to work and study before going to Sheffield.

The world does not owe you a living whilst you grow up. You can still have fun making all sorts of mistakes, I know I did.

Exposure to a much wider group of people with much more varied opportunities with the freedom to explore those opportunities within an academic environment.

[Fido]

People with better soft skills are more likely to be employed

Absolutely. And you don’t HAVE to go to uni to get those but there are tons of kids turning to adults who massively need that. When I look at some of my daughters housemates these three years will be absolutely essential to what they become capable of contributing in that sphere.

It doesn’t surprise me that right leaning thinkers don’t get it.

I get it all right. But what is the difference between going to University and getting a job in terms of growing up? It's not a question of being right leaning FFS.

I fucked up my A levels first time round because of girls, booze and house music. Fuck me I grew up a lot in the couple of years I went to work and study before going to Sheffield.

The world does not owe you a living whilst you grow up. You can still have fun making all sorts of mistakes, I know I did.

Exposure to a much wider group of people with much more varied opportunities with the freedom to explore those opportunities within an academic environment.

The first part of that is very much an argument for national service, you could say.

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

That was the point of Cameron’s version of it which actually worked quite well for a few years

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It’s also the benefit - or was - of Erasmus

[Borin' Baggie]

People with better soft skills are more likely to be employed

Absolutely. And you don’t HAVE to go to uni to get those but there are tons of kids turning to adults who massively need that. When I look at some of my daughters housemates these three years will be absolutely essential to what they become capable of contributing in that sphere.

It doesn’t surprise me that right leaning thinkers don’t get it.

I get it all right. But what is the difference between going to University and getting a job in terms of growing up? It's not a question of being right leaning FFS.

I fucked up my A levels first time round because of girls, booze and house music. Fuck me I grew up a lot in the couple of years I went to work and study before going to Sheffield.

The world does not owe you a living whilst you grow up. You can still have fun making all sorts of mistakes, I know I did.

Exposure to a much wider group of people with much more varied opportunities with the freedom to explore those opportunities within an academic environment.

The first part of that is very much an argument for national service, you could say.

It applies, the difference being personal choice and that the military don't want people who are unwillingly there.

[Protheroe]

If you don’t know the answer to that then you don’t get it.

What am I not getting? I went to work and moved out. I met a much wider circle of people from varied backgrounds and ethnicities than the white working class monoculture I grew up in. 

To be honest the people I worked with were from far more diverse backgrounds than the majority chinless wonders I went to University with.

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

I did both, same as you. A year in a Black Country office then three years away. Your experience may be different to mine but if you asked which one impacted my life skills, confidence, cultural capital, personal growth more, far more, it was the latter.

None of that detracts from what the year in work and paying bills at 18 gave me, but neither could that give me what uni did.

There are other posts that highlight the critical differences.

[Logic1]

It is simply not possible for the state to fully fund everyone going to University, sadly because the tax burden is already too high and people don't have the appetite for higher taxes. We also waste far too much money subsidising old people for things they should have worked and saved up for (but that is another story).

What concerns me is that if the funding is moved back to the state, the number of places will fall and that will massively impact upon social mobility. I work at the best University in the centre of the city and the things we do to help kids from disadvantaged areas is incredible. The university sector in this country is one of our finest exports. This means students will have to pay for it. Something has to be done about these excessive loans, they need to be made even more progressive somehow because the impact on work incentives with such high taxes is going to be a problem. Nevertheless, I do believe that there is a tendency in this country for people to want lots of things for free. But they are not free. No one is forced to go to University, if you want to go, you have to pay for it (or at least most of it) and make the most of it. Why is it fair for people who don't go to University to subsidise it? Also, people who say it is regressive because rich people would just pay off the fees are likely wrong - why would anyone do that (except for the very rich) on the basis that you don't know how much lifetime earnings are going to be generated. It is after all an income contingent loan, the more you earn, the more you pay. In that sense, it's quite progressive. 

One other thing, it very much frustrates me that this debate is typically all about the costs of going to University. But what about all the benefits people get from going to University. Many of those benefits are hard to value.

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

Your final paragraph is actually what much of the debate has been about - you’re spot on

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Hard to value, rather than impossible to measure

[Squid]

There's more problems in Higher Education than just student loans. Two East Midlands universities are running with £20million+ deficits, Coventry has a £60 million pound deficit.

Student loans are the tip of the iceberg. There's rank mismanagement, but also successive governments undervaluing the sector and actively seeking to discourage international students. It all needs reforms to be made.