Has he gone yet?

[Derek Hardballs]

The media didn’t create this problem the PM and his advisers did. The decision to employ Mandelson was idiotic given what was known even with a cursory Google search. Trying to be too clever and duplicitous by employing someone equally dodgy as those he was meant to work with in the US.

On a wider point he found himself under pressure from fellow Labour MPs because of the divisive way he’s ran No10 alongside his advisers and aides. If you’re on the left of the Labour Party and disagree with the leader you can expect sanctions, even the whip taken away, however if you’re a right of the Labour Party as was Mandelson you can be sacked twice, then appointed to one of the most prestigious jobs in the diplomatic service and even when forced to resign you are allowed to be in the Labour Party until it threatens to undermine those in No10.

From the countries point of view, he’s offered no real change, just more Sunakism, more concerned with trying to garner votes from those who will never vote for him than those who he has politically abandoned or thrown under the bus.

I’m sure in the next few weeks, he will try and bring the different factions he’s helped if not being the driving force behind creating back together, but for how long and will it be just words?

I appreciate its easy to blame algorithms (yawn), the press, whilst describing those who think the PM is the architect of many of his own problems as ‘thick’ but in reality if No10 had spent more time listening to the whole Labour Party, rather than spend all that energy on alienating half of it, then maybe it could defend itself as a united force for good against it’s critics, rather than giving justifiable reasons for people to be critical.

[CIM]

He hasn't gone and nor should he.

Loads of thick people about looking for scapegoats galore.

For all his issues Starmer is a more decent and honourable person than most and had nothing directly to do with Epstein.

Compare this to the Tory sleaze we had over years and it's nothing.

Please let this be parody

[tHEgLASSdOORS]

I think there are people that voted Tory throughout the 2010s and saw the circus of Cameron-Johnson-Truss-Sunak that they are desperate for any kind of comparable Labour blood but were oddly silent about that circus when it was in full flow. Be better looking in on themselves than trying to parrot the concept that Starmer is anywhere near as bad as the middle two in that parade. He’s not even close.

[man in the corner shop]

That's pretty much how I see it Duffers. If the focus of attention was on Farage in the same way it is on Starmer then the narrative would be very different. I believe that the political media got used to the stardom and headline grabbing broadcasts when the country was going mad for Brexit and haven't been able to come off the attention drug yet. They do love a drama, whether real or perceived.

Does make you yearn back for the days when politicians were boring men and women who just quietly got on with the job.

A bit like Starmer you mean?

He's in the same mould as John Major.

They are bedfellows in terms of 10+ of levels of boringness. 10 being max. But we did need dull after the sick pantomime of the previous 15 years.

I fundamentally disagreed with the politics of Major but I think he was far more competent, articulate, statesmanlike and credible than Starmer.

Which says a lot about Keef really. And is his problem in a nutshell....as he said himself, he is not very good at politics.

[strawman]

[Derek Hardballs]

Absolutely nails Starmer and Labour and all the Centrist Dad’s that are really Tories but can’t quite admit it to themselves, so defend the direction that the Labour Party have taken. Well done to Pie for being as objective in his criticism of this government as he was the previous ones, something our Blue Labour apologists might want to take onboard.

[PatelsPlatoon]

He hasn't gone and nor should he.

Loads of thick people about looking for scapegoats galore.

For all his issues Starmer is a more decent and honourable person than most and had nothing directly to do with Epstein.

Compare this to the Tory sleaze we had over years and it's nothing.

Please let this be parody

You've nailed your colours to the mast and the fact you started this thread says it all. You're clearly a one eyed Tory, comp[letely unable to see the utter mess caused by their years of incompetence. I don't follow any political party and therefore I'm in a far more balanced position to comment.

The absolute carnage created by Brexit, austerity and years of infighting and incompetent leaders leaves people like you look utterly pathetic when discussing moral codes for PMs.

Most people shrug their shoulders at a tough week for him, but sanctimonious planks like you create some alternative universe where whats apparent to anyone neutral is completely missed.

[baggy1]

Absolutely nails Starmer and Labour and all the Centrist Dad’s that are really Tories but can’t quite admit it to themselves, so defend the direction that the Labour Party have taken. Well done to Pie for being as objective in his criticism of this government as he was the previous ones, something our Blue Labour apologists might want to take onboard.

Very easy to be the party of protest - If you are now discounting this and Blair’s Labour as centrist Dads give your head a wobble. The Labour you want is pointless without any time in actual power.

[Derek Hardballs]

Absolutely nails Starmer and Labour and all the Centrist Dad’s that are really Tories but can’t quite admit it to themselves, so defend the direction that the Labour Party have taken. Well done to Pie for being as objective in his criticism of this government as he was the previous ones, something our Blue Labour apologists might want to take onboard.

Very easy to be the party of protest - If you are now discounting this and Blair’s Labour as centrist Dads give your head a wobble. The Labour you want is pointless without any time in actual power.

It’s not 1997… 

What did you disagree with Pie about in the video?

[baggy1]

He appears to think that I'm not working class for one. I've worked since i was 10 if you include paper rounds, nearly 50 years later I'm earning and paying taxes without complaint. As I get more money the country gets a higher proportion than i do of the extra income - no complaints. I've worked hard and slogged away when I could have had it much better under a Tory tax break world. When I get lectured by fools with no answers on what is working it tends to feel personal, so when you've worked as hard and paid as many taxes as me come back and tell me I'm not working class.

It's easy to protest. After years of bullshit leadership with a side of jazz hands, dickheads are now complaining that we haven't got someone you could have a pint with. We need boring, we need steady, we need to find a way through the mess that the country is in. You'll learn one day, keep up the protest as it will make you feel better, but protest without knowing what you want is just shouting into the void. When you get old enough to see that life is a slog and there are no easy answers then you will realise that applies to everything. Hard work = working class.