Sandwell Councillor defects to Reform

[Pontificator]

It's not even a case of who to believe.

You can argue on individual incidents as to whether they happened in the way one side said it did.

But overall you cannot argue that the destruction of Gaza wrought by military bombardment will inevitably lead to the death of people, most of whom will be civilians.

You either think that's justified or it's not...propaganda is not relevant.

The morality of area bombing in Germany was questioned as early as 1941 and the deployment of atomic weapons against Japan in 1945 sparked ethical controversy - still does. I think the 400 miles of tunnels criss crossing Gaza storing weapons, ammunition, bombs, rockets. housing terrorists, with entrances/exits in schools. hospitals and mosques may be some justification.

[Protheroe]

It's not even a case of who to believe.

You can argue on individual incidents as to whether they happened in the way one side said it did.

But overall you cannot argue that the destruction of Gaza wrought by military bombardment will inevitably lead to the death of people, most of whom will be civilians.

You either think that's justified or it's not...propaganda is not relevant.

The morality of area bombing in Germany was questioned as early as 1941 and the deployment of atomic weapons against Japan in 1945 sparked ethical controversy - still does. I think the 400 miles of tunnels criss crossing Gaza storing weapons, ammunition, bombs, rockets. housing terrorists, with entrances/exits in schools. hospitals and mosques may be some justification.

Quite. I did mention the taking of Berlin on here many moons ago. That certainly wasn't pretty - but at least Britain had a spine in those days.

[Ted Maul]

I think the 400 miles of tunnels criss crossing Gaza storing weapons, ammunition, bombs, rockets. housing terrorists, with entrances/exits in schools. hospitals and mosques may be some justification.

None of which would exist if Israel hadn't spent the last few generations violently occupying Palestinian land.

[Fido]

I think the 400 miles of tunnels criss crossing Gaza storing weapons, ammunition, bombs, rockets. housing terrorists, with entrances/exits in schools. hospitals and mosques may be some justification.

None of which would exist if Israel hadn't spent the last few generations violently occupying Palestinian land.

You say that but as I mentioned in a post earlier in the thread, I think they still would.

[Squid]

It's not even a case of who to believe.

You can argue on individual incidents as to whether they happened in the way one side said it did.

But overall you cannot argue that the destruction of Gaza wrought by military bombardment will inevitably lead to the death of people, most of whom will be civilians.

You either think that's justified or it's not...propaganda is not relevant.

The morality of area bombing in Germany was questioned as early as 1941 and the deployment of atomic weapons against Japan in 1945 sparked ethical controversy - still does. I think the 400 miles of tunnels criss crossing Gaza storing weapons, ammunition, bombs, rockets. housing terrorists, with entrances/exits in schools. hospitals and mosques may be some justification.

WW2 was conducted before the 1949 Geneva Convention, so that is an invalid comparison.

It's also not as though Israel only engages in mass bombing. They also fire upon emergency workers and then try to bury the evidence:

https://news.sky.com/story/paramedic-who...y-13379058

Then there's the children and elderly people who are shot in the head by the IDF:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/a...israel-war


And again, there's also what they get up to in the West Bank.

Killing people while they were surrendering:

https://www.npr.org/2025/11/28/nx-s1-562...estigating.

Shooting dead a teenager while firing indiscriminately

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-eas...025-12-15/

And allowing Israeli settlers to attack Palestinians while they are harvesting their olive trees:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/israel...ve-harvest

Will you justify all that too?

[Ted Maul]

I think the 400 miles of tunnels criss crossing Gaza storing weapons, ammunition, bombs, rockets. housing terrorists, with entrances/exits in schools. hospitals and mosques may be some justification.

None of which would exist if Israel hadn't spent the last few generations violently occupying Palestinian land.

You say that but as I mentioned in a post earlier in the thread, I think they still would.

Maybe, maybe not. Wasn't given chance though was it?

[Protheroe]

I think the 400 miles of tunnels criss crossing Gaza storing weapons, ammunition, bombs, rockets. housing terrorists, with entrances/exits in schools. hospitals and mosques may be some justification.

None of which would exist if Israel hadn't spent the last few generations violently occupying Palestinian land.

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, and hadn't occupied it violently or otherwise for 18 years.

And on that point Gaza has never been "Palestinian land" - it has been controlled variously by Israel, Egypt, Britain, the Ottomans, the Crusaders and by the Arab conquest.

[Pontificator]

I think the 400 miles of tunnels criss crossing Gaza storing weapons, ammunition, bombs, rockets. housing terrorists, with entrances/exits in schools. hospitals and mosques may be some justification.

None of which would exist if Israel hadn't spent the last few generations violently occupying Palestinian land.

FFS As usual its the Jews own fault they are the subject of genocidal attacks on them on their own territory (Oct 7th) and jews around the world. 
If you are talking about the West Bank, Israel regards it as disputed land and they believe their actions are justified, not sure I do

[CarlosCorbewrong]

It's not even a case of who to believe.

You can argue on individual incidents as to whether they happened in the way one side said it did.

But overall you cannot argue that the destruction of Gaza wrought by military bombardment will inevitably lead to the death of people, most of whom will be civilians.

You either think that's justified or it's not...propaganda is not relevant.

The morality of area bombing in Germany was questioned as early as 1941 and the deployment of atomic weapons against Japan in 1945 sparked ethical controversy - still does. I think the 400 miles of tunnels criss crossing Gaza storing weapons, ammunition, bombs, rockets. housing terrorists, with entrances/exits in schools. hospitals and mosques may be some justification.

WW2 was conducted before the 1949 Geneva Convention, so that is an invalid comparison.

It's also not as though Israel only engages in mass bombing. They also fire upon emergency workers and then try to bury the evidence:

https://news.sky.com/story/paramedic-who...y-13379058

Then there's the children and elderly people who are shot in the head by the IDF:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/a...israel-war


And again, there's also what they get up to in the West Bank.

Killing people while they were surrendering:

https://www.npr.org/2025/11/28/nx-s1-562...estigating.

Shooting dead a teenager while firing indiscriminately

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-eas...025-12-15/

And allowing Israeli settlers to attack Palestinians while they are harvesting their olive trees:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/israel...ve-harvest

Will you justify all that too?

Careful.  You're pushing them towards the inevitable "What do you think Israel should have done" defence.

Meanwhile, Ponty has avoided examining Israel's actions against the criteria he, himself, set and now Proth is joining him with his usual distraction tactics.  Hoisted by his own retard.

[Borin' Baggie]

It's not even a case of who to believe.

You can argue on individual incidents as to whether they happened in the way one side said it did.

But overall you cannot argue that the destruction of Gaza wrought by military bombardment will inevitably lead to the death of people, most of whom will be civilians.

You either think that's justified or it's not...propaganda is not relevant.

The morality of area bombing in Germany was questioned as early as 1941 and the deployment of atomic weapons against Japan in 1945 sparked ethical controversy - still does. I think the 400 miles of tunnels criss crossing Gaza storing weapons, ammunition, bombs, rockets. housing terrorists, with entrances/exits in schools. hospitals and mosques may be some justification.

Quite. I did mention the taking of Berlin on here many moons ago. That certainly wasn't pretty - but at least Britain had a spine in those days.

That was the Soviets and let's not hold them up as a bastion of morality shall we?