It's The Ashes (again)

[Shabby Russian]

Good day for us. Bowled well in the morning, trading runs for wickets.

Batted really well in the afternoon. 

The only thing keeping this test interesting is the late flurry of wickets on both days in the evening session. In both cases without any real reason why this would happen.

For test matches to be really good, there ideally needs to be an even contest between bat and ball. At the moment things are too much in favour of the batters.

When before in an Ashes series in England  have the opening innings for both sides in the first 2 tests see them get over 350.

[Cheshire East Baggie]

Good day for us. Bowled well in the morning, trading runs for wickets.

Batted really well in the afternoon. 

The only thing keeping this test interesting is the late flurry of wickets on both days in the evening session. In both cases without any real reason why this would happen.

For test matches to be really good, there ideally needs to be an even contest between bat and ball. At the moment things are too much in favour of the batters.

When before in an Ashes series in England  have the opening innings for both sides in the first 2 tests see them get over 350.

Stokes wanted flat batting wickets in the first place, then asked for a bit more grass after the Edgbaston Test. I guess it's the unusually dry weather which is resulting in these flat tracks. There's also been some chat on TMS about how the Duke balls may be less lively than in the past, as well as being less durable. Cricket needs excitement in every department, batting, bowling and fielding. If all you want to see is hitting you might as well watch baseball IMO. Or T20.

[AnelkasBeard]

I’ve watched the smith catch to dismiss Root a dozen times and I don’t know what the video saw but the ball definitely touches the ground it should have been not out. Just like the green Duckett in the first test.
For me unless they can be absolutely sure it should be not out. There guessing wrong
Just my unbiased opinion of course.

Good post. It wasn't a catch. If you pause it at the right spot the ball makes contact with the grass. 

The fact the third umpire had to have several looks at it tells me he wasn't sure, therefore it's not out - you shouldn't give a wicket unless you're 100% sure it's out.

After Cam Green's "catch" of Shubman Gill in the WTC Final (go watch it if you haven't seen it already), this one was always going to be given out.

Smith had a bit more control than Green did, so it was always likely to be given out.

[wba13]

If in doubt it’s not out, all the replays show all three batsman were not out.
If the ball touches the grass it shows there not in control of the ball.

[AnelkasBeard]

In this instance as well, Smith juggled the ball into his chest and held it against his chest, after the grass incident.

How exactly is he in control of the ball there?

[backsidebaggie]

In this instance as well, Smith juggled the ball into his chest and held it against his chest, after the grass incident.

How exactly is he in control of the ball there?

That bit is irrelevant as it didn’t touch the ground during the juggle and he held it after that.

The key is did it touch the ground when he caught it and his hand hit the ground.

[AnelkasBeard]

In this instance as well, Smith juggled the ball into his chest and held it against his chest, after the grass incident.

How exactly is he in control of the ball there?

That bit is irrelevant as it didn’t touch the ground during the juggle and he held it after that.

The key is did it touch the ground when he caught it and his hand hit the ground.

It is incredibly relevant. The umpire is judging that Smith had control of the ball, whilst the ball was probably touching the ground, so he judged it as a catch.

However, Smith had to maintain control of the ball throughout the process of the catch (see rule below), and the juggle clearly indicates that he didn't.

"33.3 Making a catch
The act of making a catch shall start from the time when the ball first comes into contact with a fielder’s person and shall end when a fielder obtains complete control over both the ball and his/her own movement."

[backsidebaggie]

In this instance as well, Smith juggled the ball into his chest and held it against his chest, after the grass incident.

How exactly is he in control of the ball there?

That bit is irrelevant as it didn’t touch the ground during the juggle and he held it after that.

The key is did it touch the ground when he caught it and his hand hit the ground.

It is incredibly relevant. The umpire is judging that Smith had control of the ball, whilst the ball was probably touching the ground, so he judged it as a catch.

However, Smith had to maintain control of the ball throughout the process of the catch (see rule below), and the juggle clearly indicates that he didn't.

"33.3 Making a catch
The act of making a catch shall start from the time when the ball first comes into contact with a fielder’s person and shall end when a fielder obtains complete control over both the ball and his/her own movement."

Nope, if he ends with complete control, he can do keep ups, heads and volleys, anything he wants, as long as it ENDS with control and hasn’t touched the ground. The juggle is irrelevant. The only point in dispute is the earlier bit when it was borderline grounded.

[AnelkasBeard]

In this instance as well, Smith juggled the ball into his chest and held it against his chest, after the grass incident.

How exactly is he in control of the ball there?

That bit is irrelevant as it didn’t touch the ground during the juggle and he held it after that.

The key is did it touch the ground when he caught it and his hand hit the ground.

It is incredibly relevant. The umpire is judging that Smith had control of the ball, whilst the ball was probably touching the ground, so he judged it as a catch.

However, Smith had to maintain control of the ball throughout the process of the catch (see rule below), and the juggle clearly indicates that he didn't.

"33.3 Making a catch
The act of making a catch shall start from the time when the ball first comes into contact with a fielder’s person and shall end when a fielder obtains complete control over both the ball and his/her own movement."

Nope, if he ends with complete control, he can do keep ups, heads and volleys, anything he wants, as long as it ENDS with control and hasn’t touched the ground. The juggle is irrelevant. The only point in dispute is the earlier bit when it was borderline grounded.

You're contradicting yourself. For arguments sake, let's say that the ball did hit the ground (which it looks like it did).

For Smith to be awarded the catch, he has to have control of the ball before it touches the ground, and every moment thereafter until he controls BOTH the ball and his bodies movement (note the words "and his/her own movement" in the rule).

The juggle indicates that he was NOT in control of the ball, and his movement clearly wasn't stopped/in control. Therefore, when the ball was grounded, he wasn't in control of either the ball or his movement, so it shouldn't be a catch.

The key point is that the ball was potentially grounded, and he potentially didn't have control. One or the other would be fine, but not both. eg the Boundary catches where they throw the ball in to the air as they go over the rope, and catch it when they're back inside the rope. The ball is never grounded in that scenario.

[backsidebaggie]

In this instance as well, Smith juggled the ball into his chest and held it against his chest, after the grass incident.

How exactly is he in control of the ball there?

That bit is irrelevant as it didn’t touch the ground during the juggle and he held it after that.

The key is did it touch the ground when he caught it and his hand hit the ground.

It is incredibly relevant. The umpire is judging that Smith had control of the ball, whilst the ball was probably touching the ground, so he judged it as a catch.

However, Smith had to maintain control of the ball throughout the process of the catch (see rule below), and the juggle clearly indicates that he didn't.

"33.3 Making a catch
The act of making a catch shall start from the time when the ball first comes into contact with a fielder’s person and shall end when a fielder obtains complete control over both the ball and his/her own movement."

Nope, if he ends with complete control, he can do keep ups, heads and volleys, anything he wants, as long as it ENDS with control and hasn’t touched the ground. The juggle is irrelevant. The only point in dispute is the earlier bit when it was borderline grounded.

You're contradicting yourself. For arguments sake, let's say that the ball did hit the ground (which it looks like it did).

For Smith to be awarded the catch, he has to have control of the ball before it touches the ground, and every moment thereafter until he controls BOTH the ball and his bodies movement (note the words "and his/her own movement" in the rule).

The juggle indicates that he was NOT in control of the ball, and his movement clearly wasn't stopped/in control. Therefore, when the ball was grounded, he wasn't in control of either the ball or his movement, so it shouldn't be a catch.

The key point is that the ball was potentially grounded, and he potentially didn't have control. One or the other would be fine, but not both. eg the Boundary catches where they throw the ball in to the air as they go over the rope, and catch it when they're back inside the rope. The ball is never grounded in that scenario.

There have literally been thousands of catches taken with a juggle. You do not need to be in control throughout the whole process if it doesn’t touch the ground. The juggle after is irrelevant. The control bit is relevant at the point the ball was close to touching, or touching the ground. The juggle on his chest after is not relevant.

Not sure if we’re talking at cross purposes. But if he scooped it without it touching the ground, then juggled, then got control, it would be fine.

I’m not sure his did though, but the chest juggle after isn’t relevant. Hence the endless replays haven’t focussed on that at all.