Entirely comfortable…

[foreveralbion]

if the facts are presented i hope all parties involved get done for fraud and theft.

how a newly formed company can be handed 200 million pounds of taxpayer money is beyond belief.

for that company to have 60 million profits in a matter of months can not be right.

there has to be loads of dodgy ppe contracts that were awarded that i hope are all being investigated.

[Kit Kat Chunky]

The self employed "dividends" tax dodge has to go. 

Then I look forward to the State also paying me holiday pay, sick pay, my pension contributions, potentially my redundancy and taking on the charge on my house.

It's not a "dodge" it's a recognition that if you run a limited company (or 3) you don't get those things that employees take for granted (including my employees).

As it is the Tories have kicked the ladder from under the self employed and personal service companies with higher taxation and by the continued (and largely unfounded) obsession with IR35.

If you take say, £12K as salary, then you get most of the benefits you mention, but considerably less tax on divis. The government don't pay holiday pay, and std NI for self employed is less to cover the points you mention. They tried to increase our NI a few years ago, and there was uproar, but the dividend dodge is too far, in my opinion. I don't do it, although I could.

[Fido]

£29 Million is a drop in the ocean compared with the untold £billions lost by locking down too hard and for too long, but not as hard and as long as you called for Dekka.

How's that zero-Covid strategy going in China?

Absolute bollocks on both counts Proth. 

This rewriting of history by yourself is very Tory. No matter how far you run from the scene of the crime.

Really? You demanded longer, harder lockdowns. We're all suffering now in the pocket, and in healthcare terms for the lockdown we had, let alone the one you wanted.

How is that zero Covid strategy going?

You can't hide from what you called for.

---

That's hardly a compelling argument for the defence, Proth...

It's not meant to constitute a defence, it's meant to set a sum that is the thick end of fuck all against the abject disaster that is the cost of lockdown. Of which Dekka wanted far more of, so yes a drop in the ocean.

I didn’t call for zero Covid for a start that is a blatant lie. I wanted some protections left in place like wearing masks and some social distancing measures whilst the powers that be actually got around to vaccinating the most vulnerable disabled children. Sorry they were an inconvenience for you and your lifestyle. Perhaps you might want to direct your ire at the government and JVCI’s complete lack of urgency and ideological stance instead of those caught up in a impossible situation.

Please refrain from rewriting history in regards to the lockdowns and what I was in favour of. Unless of course you were always in favour of letting hundreds of thousands more die before the vaccine was created and distributed?

You were entirely comfortable with the vast amounts of public money given to companies with dubious links to the Tory party and have never as far as I can remember condemned it. There’s always a deflection, whataboutery or just arrogant dismissal. Ironic and hypocritical for someone who has bemoaned the corruption and cronyism of Sandwell Council for years.

That’s bullshit, Derek. You were constantly after longer lockdowns.

[Derek Hardballs]

£29 Million is a drop in the ocean compared with the untold £billions lost by locking down too hard and for too long, but not as hard and as long as you called for Dekka.

How's that zero-Covid strategy going in China?

Absolute bollocks on both counts Proth. 

This rewriting of history by yourself is very Tory. No matter how far you run from the scene of the crime.

Really? You demanded longer, harder lockdowns. We're all suffering now in the pocket, and in healthcare terms for the lockdown we had, let alone the one you wanted.

How is that zero Covid strategy going?

You can't hide from what you called for.

---

That's hardly a compelling argument for the defence, Proth...

It's not meant to constitute a defence, it's meant to set a sum that is the thick end of fuck all against the abject disaster that is the cost of lockdown. Of which Dekka wanted far more of, so yes a drop in the ocean.

I didn’t call for zero Covid for a start that is a blatant lie. I wanted some protections left in place like wearing masks and some social distancing measures whilst the powers that be actually got around to vaccinating the most vulnerable disabled children. Sorry they were an inconvenience for you and your lifestyle. Perhaps you might want to direct your ire at the government and JVCI’s complete lack of urgency and ideological stance instead of those caught up in a impossible situation.

Please refrain from rewriting history in regards to the lockdowns and what I was in favour of. Unless of course you were always in favour of letting hundreds of thousands more die before the vaccine was created and distributed?

You were entirely comfortable with the vast amounts of public money given to companies with dubious links to the Tory party and have never as far as I can remember condemned it. There’s always a deflection, whataboutery or just arrogant dismissal. Ironic and hypocritical for someone who has bemoaned the corruption and cronyism of Sandwell Council for years.

That’s bullshit, Derek. You were constantly after longer lockdowns.

I argued after the two 2020 lockdowns that measures should still be in place such as mask wearing and social distancing until children who were vulnerable had, had the opportunity afforded to every other age group to have the vaccine. During the two lockdowns I don’t recall public opinion based on surveys ever against my opinion during that time. After lockdowns there were a few plonkers proclaiming themselves laughably alpha males playing army at Chasewater etc due to having to wear a mask and a few loudmouth ERG types claiming their liberty had been stolen like spoilt brats. Remember this was a time when Johnson was trying to save his Premiership with Operation Big arf Dog. This was when I argued that some protections should be kept in place until children with serious illness’s, syndromes and disabilities etc had the same opportunity those big brave ‘alpha males’ had had to take the vaccine. I know right, what a wimp for wanting genuinely vulnerable children to be offered protection through the vaccine. What I should have done is argue they should be put under house arrest or better still just let it rip and hope not too many of them died. 

Now back to the point of the thread and yet another example of the dubious at very best procurement process’s that saw billions ‘wasted’ on the unworkable Track and Trace and unusable PPE. Are we going to get that money back? Is anyone going to be held responsible? Easier to try and muddy the water with talk of lockdowns instead, whataboutery and least worse weasel words.

[CaptainFantastico]

I think anyone with a certain type of mind could see and argue from the start that the cost of locking down may well be as painful as not doing so. But the reality is the lockdowns took place at a time where to not do so presented the certainty that hospitals and emergency care would be overwhelmed and the social consequence would be devastating. So both options had bad outcomes and  anyone taking the retrospective high ground just sounds like a proper dickhead.


And the hypocrisy of your whining about Sandwell Council Proth is spot on when you respond to this as you have.

[Malcolm Tucker]

£29 Million is a drop in the ocean compared with the untold £billions lost by locking down too hard and for too long, but not as hard and as long as you called for Dekka.

How's that zero-Covid strategy going in China?

Fucking hell.

[Protheroe]

The long term cost to this country due to lockdown fetishists dwarfs any misappropriation of cash for PPE. The same lockdown fetishists were screaming for PPE. The government bought, for good or for ill, from those who claimed they could supply. In a crisis due diligence may go out of the window - I’m comfortable with that if it gets the overall result you need.

I won’t accept revisionism from Dekka. You were calling for more extreme measures without giving a damn about the consequences.

[CaptainFantastico]

The long term cost to this country due to lockdown fetishists dwarfs any misappropriation of cash for PPE. The same lockdown fetishists were screaming for PPE. The government bought, for good or for ill, from those who claimed they could supply. In a crisis due diligence may go out of the window - I’m comfortable with that if it gets the overall result you need.

I won’t accept revisionism from Dekka. You were calling for more extreme measures without giving a damn about the consequences.

Remind me which party you were knocking doors for again that oversaw all of this?

[Borin' Baggie]

The long term cost to this country due to lockdown fetishists dwarfs any misappropriation of cash for PPE. The same lockdown fetishists were screaming for PPE. The government bought, for good or for ill, from those who claimed they could supply. In a crisis due diligence may go out of the window - I’m comfortable with that if it gets the overall result you need.

I won’t accept revisionism from Dekka. You were calling for more extreme measures without giving a damn about the consequences.

In a crisis due diligence absolutely does not go out the window, especially from procurement, as you need to weed out profiteers and reduce the risk of failure due to inventory being of poor quality. That is a weak excuse peddled by those trying to justify our government's incompetence and laziness.

[SophLad]

The long term cost to this country due to lockdown fetishists dwarfs any misappropriation of cash for PPE. The same lockdown fetishists were screaming for PPE. The government bought, for good or for ill, from those who claimed they could supply. In a crisis due diligence may go out of the window - I’m comfortable with that if it gets the overall result you need.

I won’t accept revisionism from Dekka. You were calling for more extreme measures without giving a damn about the consequences.

In a crisis due diligence absolutely does not go out the window, especially from procurement, as you need to weed out profiteers and reduce the risk of failure due to inventory being of poor quality. That is a weak excuse peddled by those trying to justify our government's incompetence and laziness.

It’s not like those civil servants were staffing ITU wards.