UK Covid death toll

[backsidebaggie]

There seems to have been a lot of protests across Europe over the weekend about Covid restrictions. Even the MSM are reporting on events whereas they have ignored them previously. Going to be very interesting to see how things pan out over the next few months if more countries impose lockdowns, restrictions or mandate jabs. I think that things may get ugly.

With nearly 8 billion doses of the vaccine dished out globally over nearly 2 years, it's probably about time that the sceptics out there realised that there is very little risk and long term effects in having the vaccine. Instead of marching on town hall maybe a trip to the vaccination centre would have helped. If we keep thinking this can't happen to us we have about 75% of the population vaccinated, Netherland have a slightly higher %, Belgium are about the same and Austria are below 70% - All very similar figures, this should be a wake up call to those that still think we have enough people vaccinated.

And we might have been here before but it would probably not be a bad idea to suspend travel between the UK and countries that are struggling with high rates at this point.

I know I’ve explained this a million times, but plenty of people, especially the young, simply don’t want it. Plenty are also concerned about creeping from vaccinated the vulnerable to vaccinated all adults, to vaccinated kids, to strong coercion, to mandatory vaccination now being threatened in some countries.

There’s also plenty who have had the vaccine but are totally opposed to domestic passports (which there is zero evidence of them slowing spread) and mandations.

Plenty are also well aware of the absurd inconsistencies and things that don’t make sense that I’ve described in many posts before. Some have had two doses but will refuse the booster.

You think they’d be better going to a vaccination centre. They think you’d be better protesting against covid passes and mandations and the goalposts steadily moving from we’re all in this together to segregating society and handing over medical autonomy to the state.

I believe many countries are watching Austria right now seeing how it turns out.

[baggy1]

There seems to have been a lot of protests across Europe over the weekend about Covid restrictions. Even the MSM are reporting on events whereas they have ignored them previously. Going to be very interesting to see how things pan out over the next few months if more countries impose lockdowns, restrictions or mandate jabs. I think that things may get ugly.

With nearly 8 billion doses of the vaccine dished out globally over nearly 2 years, it's probably about time that the sceptics out there realised that there is very little risk and long term effects in having the vaccine. Instead of marching on town hall maybe a trip to the vaccination centre would have helped. If we keep thinking this can't happen to us we have about 75% of the population vaccinated, Netherland have a slightly higher %, Belgium are about the same and Austria are below 70% - All very similar figures, this should be a wake up call to those that still think we have enough people vaccinated.

And we might have been here before but it would probably not be a bad idea to suspend travel between the UK and countries that are struggling with high rates at this point.

I know I’ve explained this a million times, but plenty of people, especially the young, simply don’t want it. Plenty are also concerned about creeping from vaccinated the vulnerable to vaccinated all adults, to vaccinated kids, to strong coercion, to mandatory vaccination now being threatened in some countries.

There’s also plenty who have had the vaccine but are totally opposed to domestic passports (which there is zero evidence of them slowing spread) and mandations.

Plenty are also well aware of the absurd inconsistencies and things that don’t make sense that I’ve described in many posts before. Some have had two doses but will refuse the booster.

You think they’d be better going to a vaccination centre. They think you’d be better protesting against covid passes and mandations and the goalposts steadily moving from we’re all in this together to segregating society and handing over medical autonomy to the state.

I believe many countries are watching Austria right now seeing how it turns out.

And plenty of people don't want to see hospitalisation numbers rise which will lead to deaths rising, this shouldn't be a surprise to people any more. And i know this might be stating the bleeding obvious but there is limited evidence of any tactic at the moment because, guess what, this is new and therefore evidence gathered so far is going to be patchy. Common sense would tell you that closing public places and restricting access is going to reduce spread but that appears to be in short supply these days.

When numbers in hospital are rising like they are on the continent - ignoring that and saying 'carry on' will be a death sentence for some.

What do you propose that The Netherlands and Belgium should be doing?

Lots of evidence that getting vaccinated reduces spread substantially, lots of evidence that any complications with vaccination pale into insignificance against the likelihood of getting and spreading covid but people like to ignore that in the name of 'Freedom'. Time for people to wise up or we will all face restrictions, or alternatively we could all protest and dance on the graves of the real victims of this vile disease.

[backsidebaggie]

You just don’t get it do you. People were told vaccination would get us out of this. 15M jabs for freedom. We have significant amounts vaccinated (including the vast majority of the vulnerable) but it’s not ending.  Now many people are refusing to go through the sane things as last winter again, because of the vaccine take up is as high as it is, and it’s still not stopping spread, another few per cent ain’t making much difference.

I don’t propose anything for Belgium or the Netherlands. I’m just saying that an increasing number of people have had enough. That is clear. People are also looking at the big picture when it comes to some countries mandating vaccines or facing prison, or being segregated from society. This was a conspiracy theory last year.

There’s only two ways of changing some minds: total segregation from society, or force. Fuck that!

I’m not sure the evidence suggests the vaccine reduces spread substantially. It does reduce it, but substantially?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance...1/fulltext

But anyway, people have made their mind up. And many have had enough when we were told by “the science” that vaccines were the way out. We were NOT told that this includes people being sacked if they don’t want it, or worse in some countries.

“Ignoring in the name of freedom” is very lazy. Medical autonomy is very important to many people. If you don’t get that, and you don’t get that people have serious issues with large fines and prison in Austria, then you’re really missing the point.

Put simply, many people don’t believe the governments any more. And given the lies, the inconsistencies, the promises, I’m not surprised.

You say time to wise up or we’ll all face restrictions. This is the point you miss. People were told that the vaccination would get us back to normal. It’s not happened in many countries (we seem better off than most). Many people are not going to do more of the thing that was promised as being the answer, but hasn’t worked fully! And restrictions this time will be ignored by most, believe me. I reckon by February last year 60-70% of Birmingham residents were ignoring them. I could be wrong, but that’s how it seemed when I was stuck in traffic jams and seeing people in the JQ all mixing in houses/flats. This time people will see friends and family and will ignore it.

The fact you link protesting to dancing on graves is bullshit. People have the right to protest in relation to medical autonomy and covid passes. That does not mean they’re dancing on graves. That’s bull shit. That’s like saying someone who was very pro lockdown (say those who wanted zero covid plan) must automatically be dancing on the graves of those who were negatively impacted by lockdowns (mental health, cancer etc). It’s not true and is a good example of how easy it is to divide. But hey, who needs accuracy when a division like this has been created? I mean, an ONS survey indicated that only 8% of unvaccinated people are anti vax in general, but that hasn’t stopped many people falling for the division and lazily labelling of people who don’t want THIS vaccine. But that’s the idea, to get people in support of restrictions against those who dont want it. Divide divide divide. Let’s see how far it goes…..

[Tom Joad]

FWIW, I am hearing of far more cases now than I have in previous Covid waves. With one absolutely tragic exception, all have either recovered or not had the virus affect them too much. I'm still uncertain about the morality of enforced Covid vaccinations and boosters, although I'm happy enough to get my booster when I'm 6 months on from my 2nd jab next month.

[baggy1]

You just don’t get it do you. People were told vaccination would get us out of this. 15M jabs for freedom. We have significant amounts vaccinated (including the vast majority of the vulnerable) but it’s not ending.  Now many people are refusing to go through the sane things as last winter again, because of the vaccine take up is as high as it is, and it’s still not stopping spread, another few per cent ain’t making much difference.

I don’t propose anything for Belgium or the Netherlands. I’m just saying that an increasing number of people have had enough. That is clear. People are also looking at the big picture when it comes to some countries mandating vaccines or facing prison, or being segregated from society. This was a conspiracy theory last year.

There’s only two ways of changing some minds: total segregation from society, or force. Fuck that!

I’m not sure the evidence suggests the vaccine reduces spread substantially. It does reduce it, but substantially?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance...1/fulltext

But anyway, people have made their mind up. And many have had enough when we were told by “the science” that vaccines were the way out. We were NOT told that this includes people being sacked if they don’t want it, or worse in some countries.

“Ignoring in the name of freedom” is very lazy. Medical autonomy is very important to many people. If you don’t get that, and you don’t get that people have serious issues with large fines and prison in Austria, then you’re really missing the point.

Put simply, many people don’t believe the governments any more. And given the lies, the inconsistencies, the promises, I’m not surprised.

I do get it and your stance that only you get it says more about your views than mine. You are basing your point on comments from an incompetent PM and failure of a human being, let alone health minister. Ignore what they said at the time, it was meaningless then and it still is. 

Vaccination is one tool in the box, it will take years (and it always was going to) before we have anything near herd immunity to get us through this, and in the meantime we have to use all of the tools available in that toolbox. Vaccination is the easiest option along with washing hands and wearing masks, misinformation has led to many people 'distrusting' what the medical community have said and advise on - forget about idiot politicians and their soundbites and listen to the experts. If we need to use bigger spanners in the box then that isn't a way of politically controlling the masses, it's because they are needed to save lives.

I have absolutely no idea why you are even paying attention to something Matt Hancock or Boris Johnson said nearly two years ago. Everyone has learned so much more over the last two years, nothing more obvious than politicians are muppets and we should ignore them and listen to the experts.

---

FWIW, I am hearing of far more cases now than I have in previous Covid waves. With one absolutely tragic exception, all have either recovered or not had the virus affect them too much. I'm still uncertain about the morality of enforced Covid vaccinations and boosters, although I'm happy enough to get my booster when I'm 6 months on from my 2nd jab.

Definitely seen some closer to home this time Tom and agree they don't seem to be leading to anything other than recovery. Like you I'm happy to get jabbed and am booked in for my booster next week.

[backsidebaggie]

No Baggy1, I'm basing my points on what every world government said when the vaccines came out. And not only that, but the scientists themselves. Not just Hancock's and Boris's particular statements. Gove, Zahawi, Johnson all repeatedly said no vax passports. No one ever suggested segregating society based on a medical choice. Hancock was very clear about it being a jab for adults, not kids. Dismiss him as an idiot if you want (he is), but he was part of the government. If they keep lying, then you have to expect people to stop listening! The experts did not give a precise figure of how many people would need to be vaccinated, fine. So now they're trying to increase take up, but don't know how many need to get it, you think people are going to be persuaded? I firmly believe the booster take up will be lower than the first 2 jabs.

Interestingly, recent reports are that the scientists advising the government are against vaccine passports and any segregation, as they can see the damage it is doing.

But this is the point. They're full of shit - I agree. In that case, why the hell do you think people are going to change their mind now about a vaccine and do what they're being asked by the very people who have lied repeatedly, and got everything wrong?

You say it'll take years to get to herd immunity? And always was? There have been many scientists along the way who have not said this would take years. Only a few weeks ago some were predicting it would fizzle out by spring 2022 (I don't think it will).

And many people are not basing their decision on misinformation. They are basing it on the official statistics for their risk in their age group. Presuming they are all getting advice of youtube is extremely lazy and wrong, and is an example of the division that has been created. Yes, there will be some, but many just look at the stats for their age and weight etc, and that's it. They don't want it.

And "if we need to use bigger spanners in the box" means what exactly? Segregating society? Forcing people? Fining people? You are aware that many of these things were called "tin foil hat" ideas last year. How far are you prepared to go Baggy1? What are you comfortable with if/when the hospitalisations go up and further measures are called for to increase vaccine take up (for a vaccine that hasn't got us out of this anyway)?

I know my stance, and I'm not comfortable with coercion, segregation, fining, prison, or force. That's called being normal! The fact I'm having to actually make that statement is alarming, to say the least!

[baggiebuckster]

If vaccinations are the only way out of this then do people support the actions of Austria (and soon to be Germany) in mandating them?

And when they have achieved that goal will they then mandate boosters when protection begins to wane again?

[baggy1]

If vaccinations are the only way out of this then do people support the actions of Austria (and soon to be Germany) in mandating them?

And when they have achieved that goal will they then mandate boosters when protection begins to wane again?

Vaccinations aren't the only way bb, they are part of the way out of this. If we don't get enough people vaccinated then we will have to have lockdowns if cases, hospitalisations and deaths start to rise. Lockdowns and restrictions kill far more people and damage more lives than vaccinations. We don't have the option of doing nothing, we have to do as many parts as we can.

By making it as binary as you are you are oversimplifying something that is the most complicated problem we have faced in 100 years.

[backsidebaggie]

If vaccinations are the only way out of this then do people support the actions of Austria (and soon to be Germany) in mandating them?

And when they have achieved that goal will they then mandate boosters when protection begins to wane again?

I certainly don't support it, and I shudder to think anyone does.

[baggiebuckster]

I'm not making it binary.

Austria and Germany are. Get jabbed or get fined/imprisoned.

Vaccine passports are. Get jabbed or stay away from social events.

Javid is. Get jabbed or lose your job.