UK Covid death toll

[backsidebaggie]

Spring 2025?

[baggiebuckster]

Spring 2025?

[baggy1]

Spring 2025?

Covid aint going away ever bb. Spanish Flu took 5 years to give any sort of herd immunity and we need to accept that no matter how much we whinge about personal rights to have the jab or not or any restrictions that get placed on us covid doesn't care. We have made great strides over the last 2 years in providing us with protection from it but we need to keep up the work for the foreseeable future.

Anybody that doesn't recognise that after the last couple of years needs to give their heads a wobble - if anyone comes into contact with the vulnerable then they need to understand that they need to do everything they can to protect them and that includes jabs, masks and protective equipment, washing hands and whatever it takes. If people don't want to have jabs and they work with the vulnerable then that is their choice but don't be surprised if they aren't allowed near the vulnerable and, if there are no alternative duties for them, they may lose that job.

They shouldn't be surprised also that they face restrictions on travel to other countries and, if we do hit another wave of hospitalisations and deaths like before (it doesn't look like that at the moment but as we have seen it is hard to predict), they could face restrictions on what they do. You can argue until you are blue in the face about people who have antibodies through having had the virus but they need to get all steps complete including jabs, because as you point out, we simply don't know enough about this yet.

[backsidebaggie]

Spring 2025?

Covid aint going away ever bb. Spanish Flu took 5 years to give any sort of herd immunity and we need to accept that no matter how much we whinge about personal rights to have the jab or not or any restrictions that get placed on us covid doesn't care. We have made great strides over the last 2 years in providing us with protection from it but we need to keep up the work for the foreseeable future.

Anybody that doesn't recognise that after the last couple of years needs to give their heads a wobble - if anyone comes into contact with the vulnerable then they need to understand that they need to do everything they can to protect them and that includes jabs, masks and protective equipment, washing hands and whatever it takes. If people don't want to have jabs and they work with the vulnerable then that is their choice but don't be surprised if they aren't allowed near the vulnerable and, if there are no alternative duties for them, they may lose that job.

They shouldn't be surprised also that they face restrictions on travel to other countries and, if we do hit another wave of hospitalisations and deaths like before (it doesn't look like that at the moment but as we have seen it is hard to predict), they could face restrictions on what they do. You can argue until you are blue in the face about people who have antibodies through having had the virus but they need to get all steps complete including jabs, because as you point out, we simply don't know enough about this yet.

I'm well aware this isn't ending, I've been saying this for a long time, that the jabs would not do enough. Its those that thought they would work that need to give their head a wobble. 15M jabs to freedom said Hancock, LOL. You really think another 10% is going to make much difference? We never hear about herd immunity anymore, I wonder why!

Ireland have a huge vaccination uptake, covid passes, masks indoors, and their cases are rocketing. So how does that work?

The care workers being sacked is absurd. Testing was doing fine. Now there's a huge shortage in the care sector and care will suffer. The vax's effects against transmission are limited anyway.

NHS staff next. Who sacks NHS staff in a pandemic? LOL!! I know, lets wreck the NHS even more! Great idea!!

It makes me laugh how long people have been saying one last push. Its NEVER ending. the forseable future? Well, yes..... donkeys years.

Austria have just announced a mandated vaccine on 1 February. Everywhere will be like that eventually.  We've gone from "we're all in this together, just a few weeks to flatten the curve", to sack people in certain jobs in 18 months, and banning people from places even if they haven't got covid (in Scotland, and England soon). I'll give you a clue as to where we'll be in another 18 months..... see Austria, who have just confirmed the vaccine is being mandated for everyone. Your medical autonomy owned by the state? In relation to a vaccine that we're still finding out about? (its only recently we are finding that its effects against transmission aren't great). Against a disease that we're still finding out about?

Covid passes, mandated vaccines, segregation in some countries, were all conspiracy theories 15 months ago. Now here we are and it shows no sign of stopping. And what's more, the covid passes don't even seem to work looking at the state of the European countries that brought them in (see Germany, France, Ireland amongst others). But enough people will still go along with it, despite there being no scientific evidence that they work (and that's before the moral argument). And I'm sure enough people would now be happy to see unvaccinated people confined to their homes. What is being "normalised" is frightening IMO. The fact is many were told get the vaccine for freedom. Now its boosters. I know you hate this phrase, but the goalposts have now moved so far they're not even on the same pitch!

You call it whinging about personal rights. Many call it fundamental liberties. Its amazing what has been normalised for some people. And its amazing that anyone thinks another few per cent having a vaccine that doesn't stop transmission is going to stop this. You say people "need" to take all the steps. Well some don't want to, and as I've said before, bodily autonomy is ours, not the states. 90% have done what they were asked, and we're still looking at further restrictions. You really think you're going to "persuade" the other 10%? No chance!! What's happened over the last year will have made them even LESS likely to change their mind. Can't you see that?

I think many many people will want to know what the end game is here. And if the scientists don't know, then many people are going to ignore them in relation to their other "advice".

Then comes the force.... mandations, using the division already created against those who don't want the vaccines, including a disproportionate amount of the poor, and ethnic minorities. Those who don't want it are to blame! Turn those who have done the "right thing" onto those who are "selfish". There's a reason this division has been planted. All in this together? LOL.

[baggiebuckster]

Well Austria have just announced that vaccination is going to be compulsory from February.

When will we follow them?

[backsidebaggie]

Well Austria have just announced that vaccination is going to be compulsory from February.

When will we follow them?

When they've decided a 90% uptake isn't enough, but 100% will make all the difference 

Oh, and more importantly, when they've sewn enough division to ensure people will turn on those who don't want it and support them being excluded from society.

That's why the division has been simplified into vax or anti vax. No nuance, just two sides. Divide and rule. The government get enough onside to do their dirty work against those who don't conform. Anyone interested in history knows this has been done many many times in all sorts of scenarios.

[baggiebuckster]

The goalposts are moving so frequently that even Jordan Hugill may hit the target one of these days

[baggy1]

You're conflating two very separate issues bb - the government statements by Hancock, Johnson et al are meaningless words spouted by idiots. I truly hope that the electorate remember the ineffective leadership through the campaign and punish them at the next opportunity. You are giving a bunch of morons credit for a strategy to divide and rule, they really haven't got the nous to plan that to get them to success.

Then there is common sense, you keep quoting % figures because it makes the numbers look smaller. 20% of the available population not having had a 2nd jab is 11M people, that is a shed load of people that could help the situation but haven't yet. Of them there will be a percentage that can't have the jab for good reason, reaction to the 1st being a very good reason, and then there will be some that can't be arsed and that is the group that are causing the pain point. Whether we agree on this point we do need to get more jabbed to provide more protection - we have good protection with the jabs so far, whilst we are still learning we simply have to get as many done as possible. Relying on either jab or antibodies is simply not enough, we need jab as a minimum and if we have antibodies from infection then better still, not something that is to be used in place of.

As it stands there is no reason to see that we will follow the steps we are seeing in Europe, but if I were governing I would be closing the borders now and having a big push to get the 2nd jabs number up and as many people have boosters as possible.

[backsidebaggie]

You're conflating two very separate issues bb - the government statements by Hancock, Johnson et al are meaningless words spouted by idiots. I truly hope that the electorate remember the ineffective leadership through the campaign and punish them at the next opportunity. You are giving a bunch of morons credit for a strategy to divide and rule, they really haven't got the nous to plan that to get them to success.

Then there is common sense, you keep quoting % figures because it makes the numbers look smaller. 20% of the available population not having had a 2nd jab is 11M people, that is a shed load of people that could help the situation but haven't yet. Of them there will be a percentage that can't have the jab for good reason, reaction to the 1st being a very good reason, and then there will be some that can't be arsed and that is the group that are causing the pain point. Whether we agree on this point we do need to get more jabbed to provide more protection - we have good protection with the jabs so far, whilst we are still learning we simply have to get as many done as possible. Relying on either jab or antibodies is simply not enough, we need jab as a minimum and if we have antibodies from infection then better still, not something that is to be used in place of.

As it stands there is no reason to see that we will follow the steps we are seeing in Europe, but if I were governing I would be closing the borders now and having a big push to get the 2nd jabs number up and as many people have boosters as possible.

No I'm not conflating two issues. They know exactly what they're doing to divide and rule IMO, and I'm 100% convinced this would be the same under Labour.

You keep saying people "need" to. It doesn't matter what you, or I, or anyone think they need to do. Many DON'T WANT TO. It doesn't matter how much you do a "big push", people have made their mind up!

Relying on antibodies isn't enough? We "need" more jabbed. We "need" two jabs. We "need" a booster. We "need" covid passports. We need this, we need that. At what point are you going to accept that some have made their mind up that they don't want it, and its not working even at the high vaccination rates we have?

The vax rates are excellent in Ireland and their cases are rocketing. So how in gods name are the ones who "can't be arsed" (a few per cent?) going to make any difference? It is absolutely extraordinary that anyone can still think this. Virtually everyone is vaccinated in Gibralter I believe, yet cases are going up there!

You say the vax protection is "good". Depends how you look at it. Individually, yes I agree. To get us out the pandemic, I think its garbage! Its absolute shit! Look at Europe. All around three quarters vaxxed and look at the state of it!

It doesn't matter how much these things don't work to get us out of this, some still think plough on with the same route.

But most importantly, if you think this is persuasive for those who don't want the vaccine, you've got it totally backwards. What's happened is only convincing people not to get the vaccine. Can't you see that? There's even people who had the first two who are refusing boosters because they've clicked its not "getting us out of it".

There's only two ways to get the vax rate up - total exclusion from society, and force. That's it. You up for that? I'm fucking not! Its gross! Let alone the problems that come with it when some do rebel!

And just imagine, even if we do go down that line (I hope to god not, its horrifying), just imagine if that still doesn't "get us out of this"........ Crikey imagine being forced to have a vaccine then told 6 months later you're being locked down..... LOL!

[Ted Maul]

You're conflating two very separate issues bb - the government statements by Hancock, Johnson et al are meaningless words spouted by idiots. I truly hope that the electorate remember the ineffective leadership through the campaign and punish them at the next opportunity. You are giving a bunch of morons credit for a strategy to divide and rule, they really haven't got the nous to plan that to get them to success.

Then there is common sense, you keep quoting % figures because it makes the numbers look smaller. 20% of the available population not having had a 2nd jab is 11M people, that is a shed load of people that could help the situation but haven't yet. Of them there will be a percentage that can't have the jab for good reason, reaction to the 1st being a very good reason, and then there will be some that can't be arsed and that is the group that are causing the pain point. Whether we agree on this point we do need to get more jabbed to provide more protection - we have good protection with the jabs so far, whilst we are still learning we simply have to get as many done as possible. Relying on either jab or antibodies is simply not enough, we need jab as a minimum and if we have antibodies from infection then better still, not something that is to be used in place of.

As it stands there is no reason to see that we will follow the steps we are seeing in Europe, but if I were governing I would be closing the borders now and having a big push to get the 2nd jabs number up and as many people have boosters as possible.

This is a key point. I can't remember who it was but I saw an article the other day stating that people who have had adverse reactions to the 1st jab or a medical exemption would not be included under any covid passport/vaccine passport scheme. The right way to go imo.