GP's

[Derek Hardballs]

So what happens to those who cannot afford decent health care? Or can’t get or afford insurance if they are vulnerable / disabled? They get the crumbs thrown by those who spend thousands avoiding paying tax?

it seems many are not getting decent healthcare anyway. I suppose this is socialism in action, we are all equally poor.

We live in a democratic society that leans a lot more towards capitalism than socialism. You vote for and live in a mainly capitalist country but somehow are being conned into thinking that socialism (where it doesn't exist) is to blame for the poor service.

---

So what happens to those who cannot afford decent health care? Or can’t get or afford insurance if they are vulnerable / disabled? They get the crumbs thrown by those who spend thousands avoiding paying tax?

You can't post the gov are putting more money and resources into GP practices and then recognise the service is not performing. And then asks what happens to vulnerable? They're piling into hospitals and clogging the system up. The hospital and paramedics have noticed but not you. I like the idea of £25 to see a doc to ensure those that are sick get seen. Not the mamby pampy idiots who go every day for a bee sting, etc 
Gets money into the NHS and gets rid of the time wasters.

In a country where people are turning towards food banks to get food, what do you think will happen if people have to pay to see a doctor? Simple, they won't see the doctor.

We need a major overhaul of the way we look at health and the health service in this country, making people pay more for it isn't the way we need to be going.

So you like the idea of £25 to see your Dr, well that is a stupid idea if that happened the Hospitals would be overwhelmed with people who could not afford it or they would stay home and some would get seriously ill or worse. So the rich would stay safe and the poor would be ill bloody ridiculous idea.

You’re new here aren’t you?!

[Sotv]

So what happens to those who cannot afford decent health care? Or can’t get or afford insurance if they are vulnerable / disabled? They get the crumbs thrown by those who spend thousands avoiding paying tax?

it seems many are not getting decent healthcare anyway. I suppose this is socialism in action, we are all equally poor.

We live in a democratic society that leans a lot more towards capitalism than socialism. You vote for and live in a mainly capitalist country but somehow are being conned into thinking that socialism (where it doesn't exist) is to blame for the poor service.

---

So what happens to those who cannot afford decent health care? Or can’t get or afford insurance if they are vulnerable / disabled? They get the crumbs thrown by those who spend thousands avoiding paying tax?

You can't post the gov are putting more money and resources into GP practices and then recognise the service is not performing. And then asks what happens to vulnerable? They're piling into hospitals and clogging the system up. The hospital and paramedics have noticed but not you. I like the idea of £25 to see a doc to ensure those that are sick get seen. Not the mamby pampy idiots who go every day for a bee sting, etc 
Gets money into the NHS and gets rid of the time wasters.

In a country where people are turning towards food banks to get food, what do you think will happen if people have to pay to see a doctor? Simple, they won't see the doctor.

We need a major overhaul of the way we look at health and the health service in this country, making people pay more for it isn't the way we need to be going.

So you like the idea of £25 to see your Dr, well that is a stupid idea if that happened the Hospitals would be overwhelmed with people who could not afford it or they would stay home and some would get seriously ill or worse. So the rich would stay safe and the poor would be ill bloody ridiculous idea.

You’re new here aren’t you?!

The way we pay for the NHS is an example of socialist principles in action. It's precisely because we can't take our money elsewhere that the poor service and stinking attitude of thinking they are doing us a favour by providing already paid for services continues. 
 We live in society where i am forced to pay for services i do not want or need with the threat of state violence if i don't pay, yet you're being conned into thinking we live in a free market democracy.

[Remi_Moses]

So what happens to those who cannot afford decent health care? Or can’t get or afford insurance if they are vulnerable / disabled? They get the crumbs thrown by those who spend thousands avoiding paying tax?

it seems many are not getting decent healthcare anyway. I suppose this is socialism in action, we are all equally poor.

We live in a democratic society that leans a lot more towards capitalism than socialism. You vote for and live in a mainly capitalist country but somehow are being conned into thinking that socialism (where it doesn't exist) is to blame for the poor service.

---

So what happens to those who cannot afford decent health care? Or can’t get or afford insurance if they are vulnerable / disabled? They get the crumbs thrown by those who spend thousands avoiding paying tax?

You can't post the gov are putting more money and resources into GP practices and then recognise the service is not performing. And then asks what happens to vulnerable? They're piling into hospitals and clogging the system up. The hospital and paramedics have noticed but not you. I like the idea of £25 to see a doc to ensure those that are sick get seen. Not the mamby pampy idiots who go every day for a bee sting, etc 
Gets money into the NHS and gets rid of the time wasters.

In a country where people are turning towards food banks to get food, what do you think will happen if people have to pay to see a doctor? Simple, they won't see the doctor.

We need a major overhaul of the way we look at health and the health service in this country, making people pay more for it isn't the way we need to be going.

So you like the idea of £25 to see your Dr, well that is a stupid idea if that happened the Hospitals would be overwhelmed with people who could not afford it or they would stay home and some would get seriously ill or worse. So the rich would stay safe and the poor would be ill bloody ridiculous idea.

It's £25 for those that have the cash to spare, why does everyone like to add crap. Where did I say the less fortunate would be penalised? Can't people apply common sense to posts. I expect better of you wba13.

[Cheshire East Baggie]

SOTV is trotting out the old one about "paying for services he doesn't want or need". Here's a few things to ponder:

The NHS provides the training for medical professionals in the UK.
The NHS provides emergency services, which private hospitals don't - it's well documented that most private hospitals have mere nursing home status and will dial 999 if you have a cardiac arrest in mid-surgery.

Education is another old favourite. "My children go to private schools which I pay for", or "I don't have any children". But who paid for your education, eh?

[baggy1]

The way we pay for the NHS is an example of socialist principles in action. It's precisely because we can't take our money elsewhere that the poor service and stinking attitude of thinking they are doing us a favour by providing already paid for services continues. 
 We live in society where i am forced to pay for services i do not want or need with the threat of state violence if i don't pay, yet you're being conned into thinking we live in a free market democracy.

What services are you being forced to pay for? You are taxed by the government that you voted for and they spend the money on items that they choose to. They spend it on the education you will have received (albeit a poor one by the looks of it), your kids education (if you have them), the roads that you drive on, the security that you need, and any health needs that you have (if you have a heart attack and are unable to communicate where do you think they will take you?). They will also provide you with a small amount in your retirement to be going on with and will take away your rubbish for you each week saving you a trip to the tip on a saturday freeing you up to spend your time moaning at the football on offer. 

You are pushing the boundaries of stupidity if you consider this country a socialist state forcing you to by decree to hand over your taxes.

[Ossian]

All taxpayers contribute to services they don't want or need, it's the only way a cohesive society can work.

[Derek Hardballs]

So what happens to those who cannot afford decent health care? Or can’t get or afford insurance if they are vulnerable / disabled? They get the crumbs thrown by those who spend thousands avoiding paying tax?

it seems many are not getting decent healthcare anyway. I suppose this is socialism in action, we are all equally poor.

We live in a democratic society that leans a lot more towards capitalism than socialism. You vote for and live in a mainly capitalist country but somehow are being conned into thinking that socialism (where it doesn't exist) is to blame for the poor service.

---

So what happens to those who cannot afford decent health care? Or can’t get or afford insurance if they are vulnerable / disabled? They get the crumbs thrown by those who spend thousands avoiding paying tax?

You can't post the gov are putting more money and resources into GP practices and then recognise the service is not performing. And then asks what happens to vulnerable? They're piling into hospitals and clogging the system up. The hospital and paramedics have noticed but not you. I like the idea of £25 to see a doc to ensure those that are sick get seen. Not the mamby pampy idiots who go every day for a bee sting, etc 
Gets money into the NHS and gets rid of the time wasters.

In a country where people are turning towards food banks to get food, what do you think will happen if people have to pay to see a doctor? Simple, they won't see the doctor.

We need a major overhaul of the way we look at health and the health service in this country, making people pay more for it isn't the way we need to be going.

So you like the idea of £25 to see your Dr, well that is a stupid idea if that happened the Hospitals would be overwhelmed with people who could not afford it or they would stay home and some would get seriously ill or worse. So the rich would stay safe and the poor would be ill bloody ridiculous idea.

It's £25 for those that have the cash to spare, why does everyone like to add crap. Where did I say the less fortunate would be penalised? Can't people apply common sense to posts. I expect better of you wba13.

Who are you deeming have enough cash to spare? What happens to those who don’t pay because they can’t? Do they get prioritised or do they get pushed to the back of the queue? Is the quality of consultation the same? Who is going to do and pay for the administration to means test people? Does it mean we have carry a health card with us to determine the haves and have nots? 

This isn’t a priority pass for Alton Towers.

[Remi_Moses]

it seems many are not getting decent healthcare anyway. I suppose this is socialism in action, we are all equally poor.

We live in a democratic society that leans a lot more towards capitalism than socialism. You vote for and live in a mainly capitalist country but somehow are being conned into thinking that socialism (where it doesn't exist) is to blame for the poor service.

---

You can't post the gov are putting more money and resources into GP practices and then recognise the service is not performing. And then asks what happens to vulnerable? They're piling into hospitals and clogging the system up. The hospital and paramedics have noticed but not you. I like the idea of £25 to see a doc to ensure those that are sick get seen. Not the mamby pampy idiots who go every day for a bee sting, etc 
Gets money into the NHS and gets rid of the time wasters.

In a country where people are turning towards food banks to get food, what do you think will happen if people have to pay to see a doctor? Simple, they won't see the doctor.

We need a major overhaul of the way we look at health and the health service in this country, making people pay more for it isn't the way we need to be going.

So you like the idea of £25 to see your Dr, well that is a stupid idea if that happened the Hospitals would be overwhelmed with people who could not afford it or they would stay home and some would get seriously ill or worse. So the rich would stay safe and the poor would be ill bloody ridiculous idea.

It's £25 for those that have the cash to spare, why does everyone like to add crap. Where did I say the less fortunate would be penalised? Can't people apply common sense to posts. I expect better of you wba13.

Who are you deeming have enough cash to spare? What happens to those who don’t pay because they can’t? Do they get prioritised or do they get pushed to the back of the queue? Is the quality of consultation the same? Who is going to do and pay for the administration to means test people? Does it mean we have carry a health card with us to determine the haves and have nots? 

This isn’t a priority pass for Alton Towers.

The issue with how you think is, by the time you had satisfactory answers to all your questions the patient would have passed away from old age.

[Geralous]

The narrative that general practice is closed is widely held but the facts don’t support this. There have been increasing number of appointments year on year with the highest rates this last 6 mths.

The guidelines say that GPs should see 28 patients a day to deliver good care. I know the majority are currently seeing between 60-100… how can this be good.
They also say there should be 1 GP per 1500 to provide good care. currently in England we have 1/2100

As Derek says think about who benefits!!!

If you want to privatise the NHS downgrade the service till the public think it isn’t working.

WARNING be careful what you wish for! Once gone the it will never return!

All these stats are fine, but there's no clarity as to who is working how many hours and seeing how many patients. Are we saying that an individual doctor should see 28 people per day? What about a practice with multiple doctors? Are the statistics adjusted on the basis of total number of patients registered to a practice?

Our practice has 5 doctors listed, but there are never more than two available on a given day. The website states the average earnings of the doctors as £81k. Now that's not the going rate for 40 hours per week of GP's time. So are these people working part time, or filling their week with more lucrative private work?

And another thing, our practice only contracts blood testing on two half days per week. It can take over four weeks for "non urgent" blood tests to be done. Or you can make your own way to the local hospital - if you're lucky enough to be able to make the 5 mile trip into the middle of nowhere and manage the parking chaos. Dr. ***** ******* could simply make more budget available, ask the local Phlebotomy Dept to turn up three mornings per week. But that would hit his profits, so it isn't going to happen.

General Practice has already been privatised, into the hands of GPs who mostly don't have a fucking clue how to run a business. Some bend over backwards to provide a decent service, others have cottoned on to the fundamentals of playing the system to improve income, maximising treatment of easily measured factors (obesity, cholesterol, smoking) and fending off difficult stuff like asthma and mental health.

Managers of GP surgeries (who are all qualified GPs) could employ more doctors. It's not clear whether the problem is lack of suitable candidates or unwillingness of practices to take on sufficient staff.

The regulator makes sure they provide the right number of appointments per patient. Problem is all surgeries are seeing way more than is stipulated or even safe.

Bad analogy but ….

If you own a franchise garage that is staffed to fix 10 cars a week and payed a fixed amount to fix only  10 cars.  if you start doing extra work u won’t get paid. 
Your franchiser could care less whether I sink or swim coz hes had a offer he can’t refuse for his business. There’s no funding for extra staff even if there was funding there isn’t enough qualified mechanics to hire.
But for years u always get 12 cars to fix and u do the extra work by working late or giving up lunch just to please the customers, through a sense of dedication and professionalism.

All of a sudden 20 cars start a week turning up every week.

Do you blame the garage for taking too long to answer the phone/ for having to wait weeks to book in you mot/ being stranded without a car for weeks/ for not giving u the free valet that u used to get/ for a job that was inadequately so u had to go back?

[Derek Hardballs]

The narrative that general practice is closed is widely held but the facts don’t support this. There have been increasing number of appointments year on year with the highest rates this last 6 mths.

The guidelines say that GPs should see 28 patients a day to deliver good care. I know the majority are currently seeing between 60-100… how can this be good.
They also say there should be 1 GP per 1500 to provide good care. currently in England we have 1/2100

As Derek says think about who benefits!!!

If you want to privatise the NHS downgrade the service till the public think it isn’t working.

WARNING be careful what you wish for! Once gone the it will never return!

All these stats are fine, but there's no clarity as to who is working how many hours and seeing how many patients. Are we saying that an individual doctor should see 28 people per day? What about a practice with multiple doctors? Are the statistics adjusted on the basis of total number of patients registered to a practice?

Our practice has 5 doctors listed, but there are never more than two available on a given day. The website states the average earnings of the doctors as £81k. Now that's not the going rate for 40 hours per week of GP's time. So are these people working part time, or filling their week with more lucrative private work?

And another thing, our practice only contracts blood testing on two half days per week. It can take over four weeks for "non urgent" blood tests to be done. Or you can make your own way to the local hospital - if you're lucky enough to be able to make the 5 mile trip into the middle of nowhere and manage the parking chaos. Dr. ***** ******* could simply make more budget available, ask the local Phlebotomy Dept to turn up three mornings per week. But that would hit his profits, so it isn't going to happen.

General Practice has already been privatised, into the hands of GPs who mostly don't have a fucking clue how to run a business. Some bend over backwards to provide a decent service, others have cottoned on to the fundamentals of playing the system to improve income, maximising treatment of easily measured factors (obesity, cholesterol, smoking) and fending off difficult stuff like asthma and mental health.

Managers of GP surgeries (who are all qualified GPs) could employ more doctors. It's not clear whether the problem is lack of suitable candidates or unwillingness of practices to take on sufficient staff.

The regulator makes sure they provide the right number of appointments per patient. Problem is all surgeries are seeing way more than is stipulated or even safe.

Bad analogy but ….

If you own a franchise garage that is staffed to fix 10 cars a week and payed a fixed amount to fix only  10 cars.  if you start doing extra work u won’t get paid. 
Your franchiser could care less whether I sink or swim coz hes had a offer he can’t refuse for his business. There’s no funding for extra staff even if there was funding there isn’t enough qualified mechanics to hire.
But for years u always get 12 cars to fix and u do the extra work by working late or giving up lunch just to please the customers, through a sense of dedication and professionalism.

All of a sudden 20 cars start a week turning up every week.

Do you blame the garage for taking too long to answer the phone/ for having to wait weeks to book in you mot/ being stranded without a car for weeks/ for not giving u the free valet that u used to get/ for a job that was inadequately so u had to go back?

Exactly