UK Covid death toll

[Baggie Rick]

I’m guessing that Rick wasn’t showing symptoms BB and the point I was trying to make was that we are in October, track and trace might be working now in places but we are 6 months and more into a pandemic. This shouldn’t have taken so long and it’s criminal that it has and cost so much.

You're correct, I'm not showing any symptoms.

I'm also correct about the criminality of it all. A patchy track and trace system that cost £12m when we could have bought one of the shelf for £1m

I haven,t said you were wrong have I pal? Just explaining my dealings with track and trace.

[billybassett]

[quote="billybassett" pid="228663" dateline="1602329622"]
I notice that PHE are from now potentially combining flu and covid data.

"This will be the last COVID-19 surveillance report, as of 8 October 2020, the information in this report will be
published in a combined Weekly flu and COVID-19 Surveillance Report on GOV.UK"

Baggy1 let's hope they don't start conflating the 2 for your very useful summaries .

The data between Flu and Covid 19 currently is clear from the ONS. What is obvious is one is far deadlier and contagious than the other.


A little more deadly. You really like stoking it up are you on the govt committee.

[Derek Hardballs]

I notice that PHE are from now potentially combining flu and covid data.

"This will be the last COVID-19 surveillance report, as of 8 October 2020, the information in this report will be
published in a combined Weekly flu and COVID-19 Surveillance Report on GOV.UK"

Baggy1 let's hope they don't start conflating the 2 for your very useful summaries .

The data between Flu and Covid 19 currently is clear from the ONS. What is obvious is one is far deadlier and contagious than the other.


A little more deadly. You really like stoking it up are you on the govt committee.

Three times more deaths due to COVID-19 than the Flu and Pneumonia combined as the ONS stats back up. Are you part of David Ickes scientific team? 

I know you don’t want to believe it

[billybassett]

Still no answer. Didn't think so. How very conservative and Cummings of you. Avoid the future cost at your own present gain. You need to take a hard look in the mirror.

I've never said it's not more deadly, it is. Can't possibly say whether it's 1.5, 2 or 3 until it's passed that's purely scaremongering. The point you so clearly want to avoid is the answer to my question.

Is 50000 , 100000 or more excess deaths over the next 10 years a price worth paying to save those now?

[bradesbaggie]

[Derek Hardballs]

Still no answer. Didn't think so. How very conservative and Cummings of you. Avoid the future cost at your own present gain. You need to take a hard look in the mirror.

I've never said it's not more deadly, it is. Can't possibly say whether it's 1.5, 2 or 3 until it's passed that's purely scaremongering. The point you so clearly want to avoid is the answer to my question.

Is 50000 , 100000 or more excess deaths over the next 10 years a price worth paying to save those now?

Those numbers are quotes from the ONS. You can say at this point that the virus is killing three times as many people as flu and pneumonia. Why do you persist with the idea that I’m exaggerating or facilitating the sensationalisation of the threat? The only numbers I’ve used are from the ONS or local Public Health teams who are not the Press or in need of grabbing headlines. 

With regards to your question it’s not very clear what you’re asking or where and what will cause these excess deaths. If it is through a lack of Cancer diagnosis etc then I will answer the question. 

Let’s think about this logically if those patients who aren’t or can’t seek help do get the medical help...

That will place them in the same vulnerable bracket as those currently or recently more accurately placed on the shielding list. That means that allowing ‘everything to go back to normal’ will place those people you wish to be looked after more at risk or locked within their own homes until they recover or sadly pass away from the underlying illness. 

Add to them the increase in those who will need medical support due to the medium and long term effects of the virus. They are already planning Long Covid clinics. 

Those same people will find themselves suffering from metal health problems including depression, getting themselves into debt, families breaking up, exhaustion. All the things you’re say you’re concerned with will happen at the expense of the freedoms of the fittest. 

This should not be a choice between protecting one group of people over another. We are all connected in one way or another and the mark of a decent society is to try and support each other and compromise our own wishes for the good of others. We must find a middle way of managing the risk that does not mean leaving thousands of people under house arrest. At one point smoking was seen as a good idea in public places, restaurants and pubs etc it’s no longer socially acceptable. 

Normal is not static it changes and adapts to the circumstances that we find ourselves in. 

If you want to vent your frustrations at the situation fine but aim it towards the party that has been in power for over a decade overseeing an NHS that was pitifully under prepared for the pandemic, a Track and Trace system that is world beating in so much as it’s world beatingly poor, confusing messages etc and the behaviour of those who have done wtf they like during the whole pandemic.

[The liquidator]

You name one government that was well prepared for this pandemic in Europe when it started it was chaos everywhere still no excuse for the way the tories have coped...... Not one person has said how would Labour have done under their leadership with proven facts and no hot hair solutions.

[Brentbaggie]

I don’t think Germany was in chaos? They had prepared for such a scenario - and indeed many regions ran mock operational simulations. They had PPE equipment in abundance and set measures to cope with outbreak scenarios including the transfer of patients to hospitals that had lower bed occupancy rates. It may have been an exception but it did have an action plan pre-prepared and at both national and regional levels.

[The liquidator]

Fair point pal but there is still people slating the government who do support Labour and have not come up with nothing to say labour would have done better.... Its easy to point fingers when there is zero comeback or no responsibility on their shoulders.

[baggy1]

I'll make this simple so that you can't misunderstand it. Labour would have used the local PHE track and trace solutions from the start, they were already in place they just needed more lab funding and or organising to make them more effective.

The tories told local PHEs to stop what they had started with testing stations and tracing efforts and then spent £12 Billion on a system that has never worked. The same tories are now saying that it is better dealt with locally. They are literally 7 months behind where the country already was, whether or not Labour would have been in power the Tories have set us back that time to give their mates contracts.

The only people to have benefitted from this are the consultants getting £2k a day on it, however at least they can spend some of that on funding the Tory party so that they can get their next contracts.

And as a matter of fact we are one of the worst european countries for deaths and handling of the pandemic. Everyone had the same starting point, we managed to fuck it up royally.