The Boris plan coming to fruition

[boingingjim]

I am a capitalist. I believe in opportunity for all. I was born in a working class family that saw my mother work two jobs and father on night shifts. Thatcher and her Grammar school policies at the time enabled me to go and become something I could otherwise never have dreamed of. I believe in working hard and paying taxes, I believe in people being more able to decided where to spend than Governments, I don't believe in state intervention at a massive scale.

You talk about me being blinded by soundbites and media portrayal, yet you paint Corbyn as being a work class lad from the estates of London. He's as stinking rich as most Tory MP's. Abbott sends her kids to private school not the comprehensives of her constituency.

I have no issue with anyone voting Labour, Tory or Libs or even Greens. People vote for their own reasons, what I can't abide is someone calling me a racist bigot when that is not true.

[ChamonixBaggie]

I haven't painted Corbyn as anything? He had a reasonably privileged upbringing though nowhere near Johnson. I just think the policies he espouses are more in favour of the working class whereas the policies of the Conservatives are designed to keep the wealth in the hands of the wealthy and privileged, preventing the kind of social mobility you say you support.

I also haven't called anyone a bigot? I don't think anyone who votes Tory is automatically a bigot. I am forced to question why any working class person with a conscience would vote Tory when their policies are so clearly to their detriment and to the detriment of the most vulnerable in society.
Given this is a forum for discussion I'd just really like to be able to convince you to vote Labour as I really believe they'd be better for you and me (I imagine the number of millionaire Albion fans is pretty low...). Current Labour policies certainly don't call for a massive increased in state intervention. I like the way they intend to raise taxes on the most wealthy and large corporations who the Tories have let get away with murder.

I'm not really an ideology person, I'm all about practically improving quality of life for the people living in the country. As such I'm against the low-tax, low-wage, low-regulation state the Tories would like to create as I think this would lead to a significantly reduced quality of life for most people (also why I'm against Brexit, nothing to do with loving the EU I just think that practically peoples lives will be worse)

[billybassett]

I am a capitalist.  I believe in opportunity for all.  I was born in a working class family that saw my mother work two jobs and father on night shifts.  Thatcher and her Grammar school policies at the time enabled me to go and become something I could otherwise never have dreamed of.  I believe in working hard and paying taxes, I believe in people being more able to decided where to spend than Governments, I don't believe in state intervention at a massive scale.

You talk about me being blinded by soundbites and media portrayal, yet you paint Corbyn as being a work class lad from the estates of London. He's as stinking rich as most Tory MP's.  Abbott sends her kids to private school not the comprehensives of her constituency.  

I have no issue with anyone voting Labour, Tory or Libs or even Greens.  People vote for their own reasons, what I can't abide is someone calling me a racist bigot when that is not true.

Understood and I'm not sure many could disagree with your first para massively. My family very much the same. Not sure why leaving the EU affects any of that you could argue it's only fostered it over the last 40 or so years. I didn't call you a racist bigot. You're telling me your not so that'll do. I'm assuming you also believe that the majority of people who voted Brexit in 2016 did it for reasons not linked to the UKIP party's attack on immigration and the potential implosion of the Tory party because of the support they were getting?

I've not portrayed Corbyn as anything you've written there. I've generally portrayed him as a useless leader incapable of leading any type of opposition thus leading to the present state of affairs and I don't argue that many politicians from any side are not also privileged in some way - that's always been the case I mean Churchill was hardly working class was he.

But I'm not going to sit here and say that seeing the perennial blusterbus and liar Johnson as elected PM with his ERG toff mates on the front bench fills me with anything but dread. I mean we will have Mogg, Gove, Patel, Baker, Draab running major offices of state. Look at the way services have been decimated over the past 10 years under this government. It's shocking. The way the young of our country are being treated and invested in is abysmal - they're the future but the Tory silver hinterlands of middle England want the good old days back at any cost.

[baggy1]

I am a capitalist.  I believe in opportunity for all.  I was born in a working class family that saw my mother work two jobs and father on night shifts.  Thatcher and her Grammar school policies at the time enabled me to go and become something I could otherwise never have dreamed of.  I believe in working hard and paying taxes, I believe in people being more able to decided where to spend than Governments, I don't believe in state intervention at a massive scale.

You talk about me being blinded by soundbites and media portrayal, yet you paint Corbyn as being a work class lad from the estates of London. He's as stinking rich as most Tory MP's.  Abbott sends her kids to private school not the comprehensives of her constituency.  

I have no issue with anyone voting Labour, Tory or Libs or even Greens.  People vote for their own reasons, what I can't abide is someone calling me a racist bigot when that is not true.

And here's the kicker, you might think that you are a capitalist, but you are a capitalist that has foundations built by government - the state funded schooling that you mentioned, the NHS that has (and will) treat you and your family in their hour of need. To be a pure capitalist you would need to have paid for all of those things yourself, your mother and father would have never had the opportunities to get you to where hard work gives you the chance. They wouldn't have been able to afford the schooling that you had for free.

Nobody in this country is a capitalist in the American model. And it comes across that you benefitted from the opportunities that were built on a socialist society but you don't want to 'pass it on'. It is great that you pay your taxes, but without government to decide where to spend those taxes you would never have got to where you are.

You are not a capitalist.

[boingingjim]

Corbyn has a net worth of ~£3m so please don't tell me he is anything other than stinking rich.

I don't need you to convince me to vote Labour, it's not going to happen and why would you want to, am I not allowed to have formed a perfect valid opinion myself of over 40 years? Being honest if Corbyn and the current shadow cabinet got anywhere near the front benches, I'd seriously consider leaving the UK.

I enjoy discussion and conversation around politics, what as I said previously I won't stand is the posters (not necessarily you) who get verbally abusive about the way someone chooses to vote.

[ChamonixBaggie]

Everyone is allowed an opinion of course and if you choose to engage in discussion (as we're doing) then everyone is allowed to try to convince others to change their opinion. If anyone can give me some good reasons to vote Tory then I'm all ears.

I'm genuinely interested as to why you would feel the need to leave the country if Labour won? There seems to be a lot of personal animosity towards Corbyn that I really don't understand given that he's been a lifelong campaigner for the working class. He is rich now yeah, I don't think anyone has disputed that? Just not as rich as some of the Tory front bench including Johnson.

[The liquidator]

When someone e decides to go to a IRA funeral that's enough for me . Remember these are the bastards who bombed my city and you think we should like or respect him I despise the twat

[ChamonixBaggie]

Did he though? If you check fullfact.org (independent fact checking website) it says that he hasn't attended an IRA funeral, do you have a link or something to say he did? I can't find anything with a quick google.

Again, I'm genuinely interested in where your animosity towards Corbyn comes from as I really think as a PM he'd improve the lives of the working class of Sandwell/Black country. I personally believe the hostility has been manufactured to suit the agenda of the wealthy but if you can give me some other reason why you think he's a twat I'd like to know.

[Derek Hardballs]

I am a capitalist.  I believe in opportunity for all.  I was born in a working class family that saw my mother work two jobs and father on night shifts.  Thatcher and her Grammar school policies at the time enabled me to go and become something I could otherwise never have dreamed of.  I believe in working hard and paying taxes, I believe in people being more able to decided where to spend than Governments, I don't believe in state intervention at a massive scale.

You talk about me being blinded by soundbites and media portrayal, yet you paint Corbyn as being a work class lad from the estates of London. He's as stinking rich as most Tory MP's.  Abbott sends her kids to private school not the comprehensives of her constituency.  

I have no issue with anyone voting Labour, Tory or Libs or even Greens.  People vote for their own reasons, what I can't abide is someone calling me a racist bigot when that is not true.

And here's the kicker, you might think that you are a capitalist, but you are a capitalist that has foundations built by government - the state funded schooling that you mentioned, the NHS that has (and will) treat you and your family in their hour of need. To be a pure capitalist you would need to have paid for all of those things yourself, your mother and father would have never had the opportunities to get you to where hard work gives you the chance. They wouldn't have been able to afford the schooling that you had for free.

Nobody in this country is a capitalist in the American model. And it comes across that you benefitted from the opportunities that were built on a socialist society but you don't want to 'pass it on'. It is great that you pay your taxes, but without government to decide where to spend those taxes you would never have got to where you are.

You are not a capitalist.

Nailed it and Jim if you deny this then vote for this incarnation of the Tories you will be denying those same opportunities you had to others. 

I work with some of the most vulnerable in society and they have paid disproportionately for Capatalist greed and the fecklessness of the bankers and corporations selling unaffordable dreams to people. How have the bankers suffered, how have the friends of the Tories suffered since 2008? They haven’t and how is that capitalism? It’s modern day serfdom for any working class person to doff their hat to this government.

[boingingjim]

I am a capitalist.  I believe in opportunity for all.  I was born in a working class family that saw my mother work two jobs and father on night shifts.  Thatcher and her Grammar school policies at the time enabled me to go and become something I could otherwise never have dreamed of.  I believe in working hard and paying taxes, I believe in people being more able to decided where to spend than Governments, I don't believe in state intervention at a massive scale.

You talk about me being blinded by soundbites and media portrayal, yet you paint Corbyn as being a work class lad from the estates of London. He's as stinking rich as most Tory MP's.  Abbott sends her kids to private school not the comprehensives of her constituency.  

I have no issue with anyone voting Labour, Tory or Libs or even Greens.  People vote for their own reasons, what I can't abide is someone calling me a racist bigot when that is not true.

And here's the kicker, you might think that you are a capitalist, but you are a capitalist that has foundations built by government - the state funded schooling that you mentioned, the NHS that has (and will) treat you and your family in their hour of need. To be a pure capitalist you would need to have paid for all of those things yourself, your mother and father would have never had the opportunities to get you to where hard work gives you the chance. They wouldn't have been able to afford the schooling that you had for free.

Nobody in this country is a capitalist in the American model. And it comes across that you benefitted from the opportunities that were built on a socialist society but you don't want to 'pass it on'. It is great that you pay your taxes, but without government to decide where to spend those taxes you would never have got to where you are.

You are not a capitalist.

Labours direct policy is to abolish Grammar schools (and for that matter Private Schools). I can't tell you why my parents choose to do what they did and if they were Capitalists or not, in the same way I don't blame anyone for the school they went to. If Labour MPs were saying you know what we think selective education is a great thing I would have no issues with it. Their money, their choice. What doesn't sit well with me is an MP saying you should do something this way while they make the complete opposite choice when it comes to their own family.

The NHS is a wonderful thing and I'm happy for the tax I give to the Exchequer to go on the provision of health care, though to pretend we can't make it more efficient and streamlined is again a fallacy.

The Labour party is currently the only political party under investigation by the Equality body for racism, that scares me.