Go on then, a match fred

[WorcsWBA]

do people not understand that it is possible for both the following to be true?

the squad is not the best in the league.

ishmael was still not getting the best out of them.

Absolutely... but before the players shit themselves at having to perform their roles, capably and how requested they looked good outfit, running over teams despite limited ability.

They then decided they didn't want to do it any more. And it went tits up...

That sounds about right. During that early spell we deservedly beat Blackburn at their place of course. It seems ironic that the initial get the ball forward quickly and high-press was reaping dividends, but fans started to get narky that we weren't playing enough football, so there was a change to less long ball, less pressing and we started to unravel, with the players, probably emboldened by disquiet amongst the fans, then downing tools. Despite the change of manager, the players seem to have lost the tools altogether now.

Despite them managing to somehow tolerate 3 years of Pulis, the concept of patience has now largely died out amongst Albion fans.

[ericlegrisly]

I'm not sure at all that the reason the high press stopped was bacause the fans got narky about a lack of 'football'.

It was much more to do with the fact that it got rumbled; Peterborough away was the first, and then it became (usually) extraordinarily straightforward to nullify us.

[wbamitch]

I haven't been following the game tonight, being dutiful as it's Valentine's Day, so there's nothing I can really say about it. I've read through this thread though and it doesn't look like I've missed much.

It is interesting to see that things that Val was metaphorically hung from the yard-arm for (such as boring football, us not having "proper" attempts on goal, picking Reach etc) suddenly don't seem to matter anymore now he's gone. Apparently, when he was here it was his fault and now he's gone it's the players' fault...

The main difference being, Bruce is 2 games into his role. If in 10 games time nothing has improved and he’s doing the same things weekly like Ismael was then he will rightly be criticised. I saw plenty of people moaning about Reach starting last night

[Lillwall's left foot]

I haven't been following the game tonight, being dutiful as it's Valentine's Day, so there's nothing I can really say about it. I've read through this thread though and it doesn't look like I've missed much.

It is interesting to see that things that Val was metaphorically hung from the yard-arm for (such as boring football, us not having "proper" attempts on goal, picking Reach etc) suddenly don't seem to matter anymore now he's gone. Apparently, when he was here it was his fault and now he's gone it's the players' fault...

The main difference being, Bruce is 2 games into his role. If in 10 games time nothing has improved and he’s doing the same things weekly like Ismael was then he will rightly be criticised. I saw plenty of people moaning about Reach starting last night

The other difference being that Bruce is openly talking about what needs to change ie playing someone closer to AC.   And we can moan about his picking Reach in that AM role (and I did moan last night believe me) but he has genuinely looked at the options and picked him as best of a bad.   A one legged and permanently hungover MP would walk into that role. I thought Mowatt might be suited, but the more I see of him the less impressed I become.

[WorcsWBA]

I'm not sure at all that the reason the high press stopped was bacause the fans got narky about a lack of 'football'.

It was much more to do with the fact that it got rumbled; Peterborough away was the first, and then it became (usually) extraordinarily straightforward to nullify us.

Much later than that on Dec 17th, we drew 0-0 at Barnsley. The crowd was already noticeably turning by then. At that point our record was W11 D8 L4 F30 A17. 4 defeats in 23 games wasn't exactly indicative of it bring "extraordinarily straightforward to nullify us". It was definitely an acceptable record in anyone's book at that point, or should have been.

We outshot Barnsley 16-3 and should have won. We were 5 games unbeaten at that point, but there was still significant unhappiness from fans by then. We then lost the next game 1-0 to Derby (we were robbed in truth) despite outshooting them by 19-3. Next we outshot Cardiff by more than 2:1 but didn't win and lost 1-0 at QPR despite outshooting them as well. Ergo, the problem wasn't the system itself, it was our failure to take chances. I think if Dike hadn't got injured, Ismael would still be here.

As has been mentioned, Bruce said last nght that we need to improve our play in the final third, exactly the same as has been the case all season. The shots for and against in his first 2 games have been much closer, but we've still only had 3 on target in each game.

I just believe that Ismael was unjustifiably vilified by the fans in the first instance for what, ultimately, is a failing in the players. Fans booing etc made the players more nervous and, it would seem, ultimately emboldened them to decide that they wanted the probable easier life that a change of manager would bring.

I'm happy to shut up about Ismael now, but not if people continue to blame him for anything and everything!

[baggie_ray]

I'm not sure at all that the reason the high press stopped was bacause the fans got narky about a lack of 'football'.

It was much more to do with the fact that it got rumbled; Peterborough away was the first, and then it became (usually) extraordinarily straightforward to nullify us.

Exactly this. Teams stopped pissing about against us which stopped our high press in its tracks. Nothing to do with any underlying disquiet from the fans about the style of football.

Val then had to "try another way" which showed us up as being a one trick pony of a team. We are not a great "footballing" team. We lack players with any real creativity. The players' overall decision making is poor.