The reality of our finances

[TETLEY74]

It is very clear that many of our fans have simply not been paying attention to our finances. The absolute need to raise money this summer by selling numerous players seems to have passed over their heads.  Read the going concern paragraph again in the audited accounts, which already factored in that we’d taken out the £20m loan.  This was taken out to ensure that we bought time to raise funds from selling players and to offloading high earners from the wage bill as there cannot be any guarantee that other clubs would take them.  That uncertainty was enough to force us to take out the loan to ensure that we could get through this season. 

As a reminder, our income has dropped by around £35m per annum. Yes, that’s annual.  Taking out a £20m loan only replaces £20m ONCE from that annual cash flow drop.  We therefore needed to sell several players and offload several more this summer to deal with the cash flow drop for this season.  We’ve just about done that by selling O’Shea and seemingly now Palmer, and offloading several high earners, but still probably still need to sell another player in other to get replacements in on loan or as Bosmans.  We’ve got the wages of Kipre and Mowatt back on our wage bill after their returns from loan, and we’ve taken the lad from Brighton on loan. 

Be under no illusions.  Diangana may well still be sold but his injury may well prevent that in this window.  Dike almost certainly will have been sold had he been fit.  If we don’t go up and if we don’t get a new owner then the chances of Dike, Diangana, Griffiths, TGH, Yokusku, Swift, Wallace, BTA, Taylor being here in 2024/25 are not great. 

The most crucial thing is to ensure the survival of the club.  That matters more than anything else.  We all still want a club to support.   Those who seem incredulous that we are selling our best players are deluded and have really not been paying attention. Taking out the £20m loan has merely bought time to prevent all of the above players being sold this summer.  We clearly can’t repeat that process with a further loan next summer. 

We have to use the loan market wisely and also sign more BTA-type signings. We then have to rely on CC repeating what he achieved at Huddersfield. He’s quite capable of that once he mounds the squad.  Above all, we need a new owner before things will improve. 

As supporters we need to get our heads around all this.  If we keep being astonished at player sales then we are simply not “reading the room”.  It could get a lot worse before it gets better, but let’s make sure that we still have a club to support.  If we don’t raise cash by selling players then the chances of the club going into administration will be much greater. Burying our heads in the sand about the reality of the situation does not help at all.  We are a club who, for the first time in many years, have no Premier League money and no parachute payments.  Clearly we have lots of supporters who aren’t able to grasp what this really means in financial terms and how we now must operate and cut our cloth accordingly.

Well said Prag and as ive and others have said on other threads our players are only worth what others are prepared to pay ,thats the brutal reality.

[Shabby Russian]

Everyone accepts we need to sell players.

The issue is with the amount of money we're receiving. You seem to think the amounts are fine, the vast majority of people disagree.

That's the dissonance, we all know we have to sell players to stay afloat, but if every penny counts then there should be some effort to try and sell at reasonable prices.

Everyone grasps that.

The problem with this viewpoint is who do you think would spend £7m plus on Palmer.

There are very few cash buyers out there and for those that are out there, there are few if any who want to spend money on a goalie in his mid 20s who has had less than a year of first team experience in the championship. We are lucky that Luton got promoted, they know Palner and have different transfer targets to almost every other oremiership club.

And if Pragmatist is right and we will need to sell players next summer, then Griffiths might be an ideal candidate and has value can only increase if he plays regularly. A risk obviously as his performances might lead to a decline in his value..

[Tom Joad]

It is very clear that many of our fans have simply not been paying attention to our finances. The absolute need to raise money this summer by selling numerous players seems to have passed over their heads.  Read the going concern paragraph again in the audited accounts, which already factored in that we’d taken out the £20m loan.  This was taken out to ensure that we bought time to raise funds from selling players and to offloading high earners from the wage bill as there cannot be any guarantee that other clubs would take them.  That uncertainty was enough to force us to take out the loan to ensure that we could get through this season. 

As a reminder, our income has dropped by around £35m per annum. Yes, that’s annual.  Taking out a £20m loan only replaces £20m ONCE from that annual cash flow drop.  We therefore needed to sell several players and offload several more this summer to deal with the cash flow drop for this season.  We’ve just about done that by selling O’Shea and seemingly now Palmer, and offloading several high earners, but still probably still need to sell another player in other to get replacements in on loan or as Bosmans.  We’ve got the wages of Kipre and Mowatt back on our wage bill after their returns from loan, and we’ve taken the lad from Brighton on loan. 

Be under no illusions.  Diangana may well still be sold but his injury may well prevent that in this window.  Dike almost certainly will have been sold had he been fit.  If we don’t go up and if we don’t get a new owner then the chances of Dike, Diangana, Griffiths, TGH, Yokusku, Swift, Wallace, BTA, Taylor being here in 2024/25 are not great. 

The most crucial thing is to ensure the survival of the club.  That matters more than anything else.  We all still want a club to support.   Those who seem incredulous that we are selling our best players are deluded and have really not been paying attention. Taking out the £20m loan has merely bought time to prevent all of the above players being sold this summer.  We clearly can’t repeat that process with a further loan next summer. 

We have to use the loan market wisely and also sign more BTA-type signings. We then have to rely on CC repeating what he achieved at Huddersfield. He’s quite capable of that once he mounds the squad.  Above all, we need a new owner before things will improve. 

As supporters we need to get our heads around all this.  If we keep being astonished at player sales then we are simply not “reading the room”.  It could get a lot worse before it gets better, but let’s make sure that we still have a club to support.  If we don’t raise cash by selling players then the chances of the club going into administration will be much greater. Burying our heads in the sand about the reality of the situation does not help at all.  We are a club who, for the first time in many years, have no Premier League money and no parachute payments.  Clearly we have lots of supporters who aren’t able to grasp what this really means in financial terms and how we now must operate and cut our cloth accordingly.

Well said Prag and as ive and others have said on other threads our players are only worth what others are prepared to pay ,thats the brutal reality.

How do we know what others are prepared to pay when we sell at the first sniff?
When was the last time a player with a stated value release clause was sold for less than that value?
This lot have history at paying too much and selling too cheap.

The transfer window is always a trickle down effect after a few big moves. I wouldn't send our suits out to buy a load of bread.

This is the 2nd time we've had a contingency plan in order to keep the lights on and the 2nd time it's been breached before the ink is dry.  I fully understand the finances, we have appointed chancers when we needed business minded people.

[wba13]

It is very clear that many of our fans have simply not been paying attention to our finances. The absolute need to raise money this summer by selling numerous players seems to have passed over their heads.  Read the going concern paragraph again in the audited accounts, which already factored in that we’d taken out the £20m loan.  This was taken out to ensure that we bought time to raise funds from selling players and to offloading high earners from the wage bill as there cannot be any guarantee that other clubs would take them.  That uncertainty was enough to force us to take out the loan to ensure that we could get through this season. 

As a reminder, our income has dropped by around £35m per annum. Yes, that’s annual.  Taking out a £20m loan only replaces £20m ONCE from that annual cash flow drop.  We therefore needed to sell several players and offload several more this summer to deal with the cash flow drop for this season.  We’ve just about done that by selling O’Shea and seemingly now Palmer, and offloading several high earners, but still probably still need to sell another player in other to get replacements in on loan or as Bosmans.  We’ve got the wages of Kipre and Mowatt back on our wage bill after their returns from loan, and we’ve taken the lad from Brighton on loan. 

Be under no illusions.  Diangana may well still be sold but his injury may well prevent that in this window.  Dike almost certainly will have been sold had he been fit.  If we don’t go up and if we don’t get a new owner then the chances of Dike, Diangana, Griffiths, TGH, Yokusku, Swift, Wallace, BTA, Taylor being here in 2024/25 are not great. 

The most crucial thing is to ensure the survival of the club.  That matters more than anything else.  We all still want a club to support.   Those who seem incredulous that we are selling our best players are deluded and have really not been paying attention. Taking out the £20m loan has merely bought time to prevent all of the above players being sold this summer.  We clearly can’t repeat that process with a further loan next summer. 

We have to use the loan market wisely and also sign more BTA-type signings. We then have to rely on CC repeating what he achieved at Huddersfield. He’s quite capable of that once he mounds the squad.  Above all, we need a new owner before things will improve. 

As supporters we need to get our heads around all this.  If we keep being astonished at player sales then we are simply not “reading the room”.  It could get a lot worse before it gets better, but let’s make sure that we still have a club to support.  If we don’t raise cash by selling players then the chances of the club going into administration will be much greater. Burying our heads in the sand about the reality of the situation does not help at all.  We are a club who, for the first time in many years, have no Premier League money and no parachute payments.  Clearly we have lots of supporters who aren’t able to grasp what this really means in financial terms and how we now must operate and cut our cloth accordingly.

Well said Prag and as ive and others have said on other threads our players are only worth what others are prepared to pay ,thats the brutal reality.

How do we know what others are prepared to pay when we sell at the first sniff?
When was the last time a player with a stated value release clause was sold for less than that value?
This lot have history at paying too much and selling too cheap.

The transfer window is always a trickle down effect after a few big moves. I wouldn't send our suits out to buy a load of bread.

This is the 2nd time we've had a contingency plan in order to keep the lights on and the 2nd time it's been breached before the ink is dry.  I fully understand the finances, we have appointed chancers when we needed business minded people.

I understand what you’re saying Tom but can we really afford to wait. The scenario is that we get a bid and decide not to accept the buying club moves on and we get no more offers for that player, that means we have lost out on X amount of money that our club desperately needs in the present climate.
This is how it’s going to be until Lai is gone.
Desperate times bring desperate measures.

[Hughie Reed 31]

The season hasn’t started yet and I’m pissed off already
Roll on tomorrow can’t wait to see who the 2 new signing’s are??

[Woodman scoreboard]

The season hasn’t started yet and I’m pissed off already
Roll on tomorrow can’t wait to see who the 2 new signing’s are??

Keeper and a striker I understand.

[Hughie Reed 31]

Let’s hope so we desperately need a striker.
I would also ask Liverpool if we could have Ben Doak on a season long loan
Highly rated scored for them today in a 4-0 with over Leicester.

[Gzbaggy]

Sounds a reasonable description of where we are, Prag.

Good piece, but if we are to improve we are not going to do this by selling players at low prices. £3 million for a young keeper is ridiculous. If he goes to Luton what would they value him at?

On an even more pessimistic note the average turnover for a club in League One is about £5 million

[Pragmatist]

Sounds a reasonable description of where we are, Prag.

Good piece, but if we are to improve we are not going to do this by selling players at low prices. £3 million for a young keeper is ridiculous. If he goes to Luton what would they value him at?

On an even more pessimistic note the average turnover for a club in League One is about £5 million

Palmer isn’t “young”, he’s 27 next week

[SW4Baggie]

Sounds a reasonable description of where we are, Prag.

Good piece, but if we are to improve we are not going to do this by selling players at low prices. £3 million for a young keeper is ridiculous. If he goes to Luton what would they value him at?

On an even more pessimistic note the average turnover for a club in League One is about £5 million

We wouldn’t be an average club in League One though. With season ticket sales and match day income we’d be looking at triple that, I imagine especially as for the first year at least there’d be a bit of optimism tthat we’d win games and some new away days.

That being said, it would still be much, much less than we have been used to operating on!